Steering wheel dilemma - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2015, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Steering wheel dilemma

I realize there are many posts on getting rid of the ugly GM airbag wheel, but I have not found the problem I am currently facing. I went through my stash in the other garage and see what I had, No need to lecture on not having one, I'm fine with that, will replace when selling etc etc. Over the years I have been buying what applied to the Esprit I owned at the time, four steering wheels with the equivalent of four different hubs and none of them are right The silver Momo came from an 88 Esprit and the splines on the hub are too big for my upper steering shaft, the black lotus wheel came from a U.K Elise I believe (originally thought Elan but more on that later) the splines fit but the boss is too short leaving a huge gap and no horn function, the silver machined adaptor you see is for a straight switch from a Nardi to a Momo and the black hub, which I though was correct, is a Momo A3301 and is not right either. Research indicates that the Isuzu to Momo hub will only fit the 89.5 to 93.5 SE SRS equipped cars, in the 94 S4 (and 93.5 with PAS) Lotus changed the rack and shafts to incorporate power assisted steering. This splined section of the shaft is smaller in diameter to the non PAS cars (see here: Esprit Steering Wheels )
I don't want a raid wheel as I have already had one, I need the extra room a 'D' shaped wheel gives. I have seen many pre PAS cars with this but I have never seen a 94 + with an alternative wheel that does not have an airbag? Does anyone know the correct hub and / or boss part numbers to go to a Momo wheel (94 - 2000 with PAS ) or want to swap any of these ? I have heard rumors that the Elise hub will fit, which makes sense given the black lotus wheel shown fits the splines, but its not the correct depth and has no adaptor for the horn function when you remove the clockspring for the SRS. anyone ?
Attached Images
 
esprit888 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2015, 09:05 PM
Overcooker
 
Moop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 184
Can you fill the gap with a steering wheel spacer and longer screws?

You need to run a wire for the horn and connect it to one of these in the hub. http://pixel.brit.co/wp-content/uplo...Giant-Clip.jpg The horn part is never plug and play with an aftermarket wheel. You can find DIY's online.

Since you drive a race car you should delete the horn for weight savings and get a loud exhaust. I don't mind not having a horn in my car.

If I were you, I would get an NRG Short Hub adapter and a Quick Release. Then put one of your MOMO wheels on that. Short Hub | NRG Innovations I don't know which hub fits your car. Find out who made it or what other cars use it.

Any quick release you get will have holes drilled for both MOMO and Nardi patterns. Slim Hub + Quick Release. That's what you need. Then use an aftermarket wheel. Those OEM ones are not going to work unless they are direct plug and play.

I don't know why your MOMO hub adapter isn't just allowing you to just bolt the wheel right on it. I'd like to see pics of it fitted.

Here's my NRG Slim Hub with Flip Up instead of Quick Release in my S2000. http://i.imgur.com/ZXwTyRa.jpg I can switch from Nardi or MOMO with just the six wheel bolts.

Last edited by Moop; 08-23-2015 at 09:16 PM.
Moop is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2015, 10:38 PM
Moderator
 
sleekgt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,660
Garage
The NRG short adapter won't work on an Esprit - on my 88, adding even just the Nardi -> Momo spacer (about 1/4") is THAT much further away from the turn signal lever/wiper control.

The NRG short adapter is a good 1/2" thick - unless you have no problem reaching for the turn signal lever/wiper control, it's going to be an issue.

Eddie B
87 Esprit 'SLEEK GT'
sleekgt is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2015, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moop View Post
Can you fill the gap with a steering wheel spacer and longer screws?

You need to run a wire for the horn and connect it to one of these in the hub. http://pixel.brit.co/wp-content/uplo...Giant-Clip.jpg The horn part is never plug and play with an aftermarket wheel. You can find DIY's online.

Since you drive a race car you should delete the horn for weight savings and get a loud exhaust. I don't mind not having a horn in my car.

If I were you, I would get an NRG Short Hub adapter and a Quick Release. Then put one of your MOMO wheels on that. Short Hub | NRG Innovations I don't know which hub fits your car. Find out who made it or what other cars use it.

Any quick release you get will have holes drilled for both MOMO and Nardi patterns. Slim Hub + Quick Release. That's what you need. Then use an aftermarket wheel. Those OEM ones are not going to work unless they are direct plug and play.

I don't know why your MOMO hub adapter isn't just allowing you to just bolt the wheel right on it. I'd like to see pics of it fitted.

Here's my NRG Slim Hub with Flip Up instead of Quick Release in my S2000. http://i.imgur.com/ZXwTyRa.jpg I can switch from Nardi or MOMO with just the six wheel bolts.
I realize you are trying to help and I appreciate the reply but I don't think you understand the problem, The gap and horn (typically its a simple drilling of the clockspring mount to install the pin and a sleeve) can be modified once the correct hub has been identified (you posted - 'I don't know which hub fits your car. Find out who made it or what other cars use it.') Well that was the point and question in my original post ('Does anyone know the correct hub and/or boss part numbers to go to a Momo wheel') As I mentioned I have a Nardi momo adaptor and the separate Momo hub I have is a different dimension at the spline. The 88 Momo hub is also different in size. This is not the same as others have done successfully on pre-94 cars as in 94 Lotus fitted a different rack (power assisted) and a smaller diameter splined shaft. Others with 94+ cars have changed their wheel to a Momo or raid but these are airbag wheels, I am looking to install the zero dish Momo 'D' shaped wheel and therefore need to know which splined adaptor is required.
esprit888 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-23-2015, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleekgt View Post
The NRG short adapter won't work on an Esprit - on my 88, adding even just the Nardi -> Momo spacer (about 1/4") is THAT much further away from the turn signal lever/wiper control.

The NRG short adapter is a good 1/2" thick - unless you have no problem reaching for the turn signal lever/wiper control, it's going to be an issue.
Exactly Eddie, I am beginning to wonder if that's why I have only ever seen Raid, Momo or alternative Lotus (I.E Elise) airbag wheels on the 94 + cars, because no one has been able to identify the 94+ hub origin. I thought I had it but turns out its not the Isuzu shaft and those S4 cars in the U.K didn't get airbags until later. Has anyone on here with a V8 fitted a replacement steering wheel that does not have an airbag?
esprit888 is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 08:31 AM
Registered User
 
petemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 252
Garage
I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem but I just converted my SE (which I thought was the same spline pattern as your later car, but maybe not) to a Momo wheel.

I used the grant 4509 adapter and this Grant to Momo/Nardi/Etc adapter made by ForeverSharp:
3 Hole Grant to 6 Hole Momo Nardi Personal NRG Sparco Conversion Adapter Black | eBay
...They come in a variety of depths, not sure what you need for your Nardi.


I cut the lower part of the two "nubs" on the grant adapter off (this is documented elsewhere on this forum). I turned it in a lathe but you could just grind them.
I left the clock spring intact, added the 2-Ohm resistor to the airbag connector and cut the blade connector on the Momo button so that the narrower OEM horn lead would fit.
I even left the OEM white plastic turn signal canceler in place. I had to play with the indexing of the Grant part so that the two "legs" on the canceller would interface with the indentations in the backside. It works OK but sometimes it missed cancelling right turns. At some point I'll 3D print a better replacement.

The (stupid) Momo horn button doesn't work with the above mounting adapter, I had to 3D print a spacer ring to make it fit. I also 3D printed a shroud that fits nicely over the clockspring.

I installed the Momo Jet 320mm wheel. It's also available in a 350mm version. The 320 is an offset wheel, having the same diameter as the 350 at the top, so low speed turning isn't overly difficult.
Overall I like the wheel, I love the extra space for my knees. The small diameter makes the steering feel a little "twitchy" at speed and it did look a little odd until I got used to it. I occasionally autocross the car so it's perfect for that. I think most people who don't need the extra legroom would be happier with the larger version.

Pete
'91 Esprit SE - Purchased 10/2013
'88 MR2 Supercharged
'91 MR2 NA
'86 MR2 - Sold
'74 914 - Sold

Last edited by petemon; 08-24-2015 at 08:36 AM.
petemon is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by petemon View Post
I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem but I just converted my SE (which I thought was the same spline pattern as your later car, but maybe not) to a Momo wheel.

I used the grant 4509 adapter and this Grant to Momo/Nardi/Etc adapter made by ForeverSharp:
3 Hole Grant to 6 Hole Momo Nardi Personal NRG Sparco Conversion Adapter Black | eBay
...They come in a variety of depths, not sure what you need for your Nardi.


I cut the lower part of the two "nubs" on the grant adapter off (this is documented elsewhere on this forum). I turned it in a lathe but you could just grind them.
I left the clock spring intact, added the 2-Ohm resistor to the airbag connector and cut the blade connector on the Momo button so that the narrower OEM horn lead would fit.
I even left the OEM white plastic turn signal canceler in place. I had to play with the indexing of the Grant part so that the two "legs" on the canceller would interface with the indentations in the backside. It works OK but sometimes it missed cancelling right turns. At some point I'll 3D print a better replacement.

The (stupid) Momo horn button doesn't work with the above mounting adapter, I had to 3D print a spacer ring to make it fit. I also 3D printed a shroud that fits nicely over the clockspring.

I installed the Momo Jet 320mm wheel. It's also available in a 350mm version. The 320 is an offset wheel, having the same diameter as the 350 at the top, so low speed turning isn't overly difficult.
Overall I like the wheel, I love the extra space for my knees. The small diameter makes the steering feel a little "twitchy" at speed and it did look a little odd until I got used to it. I occasionally autocross the car so it's perfect for that. I think most people who don't need the extra legroom would be happier with the larger version.
Thanks Pete,
The problem, which may or may not be real depending on whose post you read, is that according to some forums (such as the second paragraph in this one: Esprit Steering Wheels)
According to that the 94 shaft is different in size to the SE (but note its being written by a non SRS UK SE owner. I have received emails that they are the same but others that they are not (the Elise size seems to be the most popular theory for 94 to 2000) and the hub adaptors I have seem the bear this out. The Horn issue can be overcome as can the gap, its the splined diameter in the hub that I am trying to determine compatibility with. I will measure and post the size later today, maybe someone with an SRS equipped SE can verify. Initially I thought this would be an hour swap, now its looking like a winter project
esprit888 is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 05:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 23
I don't know how soon, but I may be able to help you in the next couple of weeks if you haven't already found your answer.

I'm looking at a 95 S4 that has a non-airbag wheel on it. The seller said the previous owner made the swap. He also has a 90 SE w/airbag, but he doesn't want to keep it. If I'm buying, he's proposing to take the airbag wheel off the 90 SE and put it in the 95 S4. He just doesn't know what the guy did who swapped it in the 95 S4, so he's going to have to see if he has all the parts. I would have thought taking the airbag wheel from one car to the other would be very easy. I'm hoping you're suspicion is right that the splines are different on the UK or ROW cars, but are the same on all the SRS Fed cars.

I'll let you know what I find out, if you haven't figured it all out before then.
Tweetdriver63 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweetdriver63 View Post
I don't know how soon, but I may be able to help you in the next couple of weeks if you haven't already found your answer.

I'm looking at a 95 S4 that has a non-airbag wheel on it. The seller said the previous owner made the swap. He also has a 90 SE w/airbag, but he doesn't want to keep it. If I'm buying, he's proposing to take the airbag wheel off the 90 SE and put it in the 95 S4. He just doesn't know what the guy did who swapped it in the 95 S4, so he's going to have to see if he has all the parts. I would have thought taking the airbag wheel from one car to the other would be very easy. I'm hoping you're suspicion is right that the splines are different on the UK or ROW cars, but are the same on all the SRS Fed cars.

I'll let you know what I find out, if you haven't figured it all out before then.
Interesting, do you have any pics of the wheel on the S4 ?
esprit888 is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 05:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,292
If the Esprit came with an airbag wheel, the splines on the steering shaft are all the same. There is no difference in pre 94 or post 94. That includes all V8's as well, and Elan M100's...

And, Elise column shaft splines were never the same as any Esprits

Jim
1995 S4s
lotus4s is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 08:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by esprit888 View Post
Interesting, do you have any pics of the wheel on the S4 ?
Here you go.
Attached Images
 
Tweetdriver63 is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus4s View Post
If the Esprit came with an airbag wheel, the splines on the steering shaft are all the same. There is no difference in pre 94 or post 94. That includes all V8's as well, and Elan M100's...

And, Elise column shaft splines were never the same as any Esprits
Thanks for clearing that up Jim, I believe you were instrumental in the Raid adaptors, so you would know! Part of the confusion stems from reading UK posts which do not have Airbags, but the wheel I have that does fit (only spline wise) came from a non airbag UK Élan (if the Elise wheel uses a different spline) based on that I should be able to strip the élan wheel and use that boss but I think I will buy a boss on its own (it's also a popular mod to swap the élan wheel for an Elise wheel (different boss so an adaptor is used) now it's a matter of finding the correct 7903 boss (unless you have some of yours left over ?)
esprit888 is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 09:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 23
I've never done a steering wheel swap on a Lotus. When the previous owner of this S4 took off the airbag wheel and put on the non-airbag MOMO wheel, would he have removed anything needed to put another airbag wheel back on? Should all the necessary bits be there on the 90 SE that the seller has for a donor steering wheel? It isn't that I love the look of the airbag wheel, but I was in a crash 10 years ago that would have ended it all for me if not for the airbag in my vehicle, so....
Tweetdriver63 is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-25-2015, 05:09 AM
Registered Insane
 
Docl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by esprit888 View Post
Thanks for clearing that up Jim, I believe you were instrumental in the Raid adaptors, so you would know! Part of the confusion stems from reading UK posts which do not have Airbags, but the wheel I have that does fit (only spline wise) came from a non airbag UK Élan (if the Elise wheel uses a different spline) based on that I should be able to strip the élan wheel and use that boss but I think I will buy a boss on its own (it's also a popular mod to swap the élan wheel for an Elise wheel (different boss so an adaptor is used) now it's a matter of finding the correct 7903 boss (unless you have some of yours left over ?)
I have a spare steering wheel adapter for the Raid wheel. I purchased it before buying one of Maxvelocity's combo deals. I'll sell it to you for what I paid if you are interested. I'm sure it can be drilled/threaded to accomodate any aftermarket wheel.

2004 Esprit FE #018. 4th to last built.
Education will never be as expensive as ignorance.
Docl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Esprit

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome