Turbo Plenum Spacer Group Buy - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-26-2016, 05:31 AM
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Curious as to whether this will include longer bolts.
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post #42 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-26-2016, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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No, it will not include bolts or gaskets. I will measure the existing bolts and let you know what to get at the hardware store.

Jonboy

1984 Esprit Turbo "Vivian"
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post #43 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-26-2016, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcslocum View Post
No, it will not include bolts or gaskets. I will measure the existing bolts and let you know what to get at the hardware store.
Suggestion, just in case not simply a case of "...adding 1"..." for those who are going to stack more than one to indicate length, grade, etc. of bolts. EX:

1 spacer: XX bolt lengther
2 spacers: XX bolt lengther

Anyone have the gasket part numbers so when we call JAE?

Kenny; Dallas Tx
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post #44 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 01:58 AM
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The original plenum cover bolts are 2 no. M8 x 55 mm and 8 no. M8 x 80 mm.

Gasket part numbers:

A910E1475F - plenum cover to plenum backplate gasket
A910E1474F - diffuser to plenum backplate gasket
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post #45 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Gasket part numbers:

2x - A910E1475F - plenum cover to plenum backplate gasket
1x - A910E1474F - diffuser to plenum backplate gasket

I have asked Joe at JAE what the cost of the gasket is and will update.

Plenum Cover bolts:

The holes in the back plate that has the threads are thru holes (not blind) so bolt length is not super critical. The plate will be 25mm thick so you will need the following as Derek has listed above.



https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Li...d_pitch=1.25mm

2x - 80mm Home Depot = Store SKU # 529111 $1.77 each.
8x - 110mm or 100mm (105mm is not a common size) Home Depot = Store SKU # 519251 $2.12 each.

Bolt Depot is a superior hardware vendor and has this in stainless:

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Li...d_pitch=1.25mm

I chose HD because there is usually 1 next door to any other store in the shopping area. Of course, Lowes has hardware as will most hardware stores. I personally will use Stainless Steel (Bolt Depot) hardware which can be found at these stores and online. I will buy 110mm length, with washers and if they stick thru the back plate and don't look good, I will grind them shorter. This is pure personal visual preference.

As for using a sealant on the gaskets, without knowing the flatness of the parts, a sealant is probably going to be needed. I love 3-Bond for gaskets, available locally as Permatex Ultra Grey sealant. It should be used SPARINGLY on any gasket and by that I mean a really thin bead of sealant. You are NOT caulking the tub to wall joint. You want a bead the is thin like a small string laid down on the center of the gasket and on the inside of the bolt holes. Once assembled, any squeeze out means too much sealant. The gasket is the 99.9% seal for these applications, the 3-Bond is just to take up any gaps and provide support.

Jonboy

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post #46 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 08:05 AM
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You could get away with buying just 6 no. longer bolts
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post #47 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 10:35 AM
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You really don't need/want a silicone sealant. If you use the paper gaskets, then it is a good idea to use a thin coating of the Hylomar AF on both sides to make them reusable without ripping, and to help them seal a bit better.

BTW FYI, taking the plenum backplate apart from the throttle bodies (as shown above) can possibly change the air flow through the throttle bodies, and make the cylinders receive varying amounts of flow. Lotus warns against dis-assembling the throttle bodies, since they are flow matched at the factory.

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post #48 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 12:54 PM
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Please count me in, there should definitely be an improvement!

1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
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post #49 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 02:20 AM
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Regarding separating the plenum backplate from the throttle bodies, I thought the backplate was located with roll pins to the throttle bodies? Therefore if you can find a way of not disturbing the positioning of the throttle bodies on the inlet manifold then the issue of needing to rebalance the throttle bodies should not arise. I know this is tricky as the throttle bodies are sandwiched between the inlet manifold and the backplate with pass through bolts.
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post #50 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE 04/28/2016

Those that are committing, so far to the buy:


Total of 16 so far!!

Tom Mieczkowski = mieczkow
1989 Turbo Esprit

Jim = Lotus4s
1995 S4s

fsrowsell
Deer Lake

Sanj x2

Don = CarSalesman
Esprit S4s

Scott = greentengu
1986 Turbo Esprit HCi

Kenny = MidLifeZ x2
Dallas Tx

Andrew = quadcam
Flo-rida

Redfox
DENMARK

Rich = Flowersjr
PA

Tremluf
Virginny

Eric = EW 89SE
in 47408

Ianarm77
Colorado

Extrax
Austin, TX

Jonboy

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post #51 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 06:49 AM
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I don't see a need for stainless bolts to be used on the plenum. Mine have no signs of corrosion, and aluminum will oxidize with stainless. If you do use stainless hardware then I would use something like the blue Loctite to minimize the stainless reacting with the aluminum.
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post #52 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorbob View Post
Regarding separating the plenum backplate from the throttle bodies, I thought the backplate was located with roll pins to the throttle bodies? Therefore if you can find a way of not disturbing the positioning of the throttle bodies on the inlet manifold then the issue of needing to rebalance the throttle bodies should not arise. I know this is tricky as the throttle bodies are sandwiched between the inlet manifold and the backplate with pass through bolts.
There are dowels, but the gaskets aren't perfect, and a small change there could change the flow a bit. But the real problem with people taking the throttle bodies apart is if they don't know and they disturb the balancing adjustment between the two halves of the throttle bodies.

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post #53 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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We don't got no stinkin throttle bodies here in MD.



We go old school here!!!!

Jonboy

1984 Esprit Turbo "Vivian"
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post #54 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
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We don't got no stinkin throttle bodies here in MD.


We go old school here!!!!

The problem is the same.

If you disturb the plenum -> gasket -> intake tract -> gasket -> manifold interface, or especially the throttle coupling balance screw, then you really need to re balance the throttle adjustment. Lotus uses "mass air flow measuring techniques" to balance the air flow in all 4 intake tubes, most people are using a manometer to balance the flow.

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post #55 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 10:56 AM
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A 4-tube Manometer is a 'must-have' in a Carb'ed Esprit owner's toolkit. Setting up/tuning the Carbs is a Rite of Spring.


That said, I carefully marked the position of my throttle bodies relative to the plenum when I took things apart to get the red stuff powdercoated. I must have got them back together OK, because I've never noticed any problem since.

Atwell Haines
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post #56 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 05:49 AM
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What would be involved in cutting a couple of them in 2 so we S4/S4s owners could go 1.5" by buying a 1" and a .5" thickness plate?
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post #57 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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What would be involved in cutting a couple of them in 2 so we S4/S4s owners could go 1.5" by buying a 1" and a .5" thickness plate?
Much harder than you might imagine. Making stuff in a machine shop is all about absorbing the cost of setups. It's obvious that making the same thing many times costs less than making 1 off. Even with the water jet cutting that will be used to make this part, there is a big cost to the setup.

I changed the drawing to 1.5" thick and got back the following prices:

1= $365
3= $235
5= $212

The .500" (1/2") part to make just an adder that you would use with another gasket:

1= $182
3= $98
5= $82

Life begins to get quite complicated for a guy that just wants to add a spacer to his plenum at an economical price...

If we just have made 1/2" spacer and you stack up whatever depth you want then the pricing is as follows:

30= $57 each
40= $56 each.

Everyone that wants a 1" spacer would buy 2 pieces for a cost of $114 and 3 instead of 2 gaskets. Gaskets look to cost about $17 each, for a total cost of $165 vs a cost of $159 for the 1" part and 2 gaskets.

I will leave the discussion of what is better overall for the different engines. Travis and others I hope will comment on this difference so that we can all weigh the benefit vs. cost for the different configurations.

I will repeat, that I am not making these, but have access to the folks that do. There is no profit in it for me and will likely cost me in some yet unknown way.

Your thoughts???

Jonboy

1984 Esprit Turbo "Vivian"

Last edited by Jcslocum; 04-29-2016 at 08:15 AM.
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post #58 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 07:19 AM
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First, THANK YOU JONBOY for putting this together. Having managed a few group buys in the past (the most recent being carpet for Esprit and floor mats), it is a lot of work.

Second, any guesses on when you will want funds from us and place order?

Kenny; Dallas Tx
==============================
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1990 Nissan 300ZX - SOLD
1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo - SOLD
1996 Porsche 911 Cab - SOLD
1989 Porsche 928 S4 - SOLD
1994 Lotus Esprit S4
Test pipe, Ramspott & Brandt center exit exhaust, 2002 center exhaust valance, Alunox performance exhaust manifold, Spax coilovers with Eibach front springs, Elise steering wheel
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post #59 of 208 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 11:26 AM
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Jcslocum,

Guess I'll jump in first.

I am in for either 3 pieces at ".5" thickness or 1 piece at "1" thickness depending on the consensus of the group. However, I prefer the 3 pieces of ".5".

Rich Flowers
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post #60 of 208 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 12:24 PM
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Any news on this great project?
Am I right in thinking that it will be 1" spacers?
When to pay etc?

Kind regards,
Redfox - 1990 Turbo SE, in Denmark.
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