WHAT TRANSMISSION COULD REPLACE UN1 ? - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 08:59 PM
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BTW,

Many companies that you may not be aware of already use cryogenics on their products. NASA, Weismann transmissions (built the McLafren F1 transaxel among other racing cars trannies.) Jerico transmissions, most of F1 and LMP car builders. Porsche used Cryo treated brakes on their endurance racers for years. They use a form of cryogenic treatment on cutting tools to cut the titanium for the F35. MAG who along with a another company is claiming 10 times the life on the tools and 35% faster cutting that results in huge cost savings. The government has given them an award for it!

Sorry for the rant. Most people put up a fight when we talk about cryogenic treatment. It is the single most advanced step that has been achieved in many years in materials treatment. The problem for the consumer is that manufacturers are very sort sighted and see a loss of revenue if they provide longevity to replacement parts...In racing and military it is considered absolutely necessary to save on costs and gain an edge whenever they can.
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post #22 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 04:42 AM
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I read cryogenics treatment process many moon ago and read so many pros and cons. I sent a billet compressor, turbine wheels and turbine housing of a turbochargers to a company in Alabama that does this process. For the turbo to survive a heat that can reach as much as 1500 degrees, you need to find a turbine housing that has abundant properties of nickle. It's not cost effective to spend so much while the inferior product "made in china" turbochargers are flooding the market. Not too many cryogenic company out there and i'm sure the cost of this process is staggering. So, the availability and the cost of this process to regular enthusiast is unreacheable...for now!

For the meantime, until the government regulates/curve the fake-fraud made in china, i will not spend a dime.
Someday, I love to see "made in the USA" back in the shelves.
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post #23 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 05:40 AM
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What about the sequential gearbox used in the V8 GT1 racing? Was it a custom Lotus box or modified from some other source?

Seen/heard here: Lotus Esprit GT1 race V8 - YouTube
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post #24 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 06:14 AM
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What about the sequential gearbox used in the V8 GT1 racing? Was it a custom Lotus box or modified from some other source?

Seen/heard here: Lotus Esprit GT1 race V8 - YouTube
Not suited for street - good in extreme racing.
You will hear the whinning sounds, straight gear cut design.
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post #25 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 07:03 AM
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Not suited for street - good in extreme racing.
But, oh how much fun that would be! The Ascari A10 has a sequential box as well - but you are right that it's more of a racing design.
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post #26 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 07:28 AM
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I believe that was a Hewland sequential 6-speed unit in the GT1 car. Very expensive, and as already mentioned it is not street driving friendly.
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post #27 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by s2kseven View Post
I read cryogenics treatment process many moon ago and read so many pros and cons. I sent a billet compressor, turbine wheels and turbine housing of a turbochargers to a company in Alabama that does this process. For the turbo to survive a heat that can reach as much as 1500 degrees, you need to find a turbine housing that has abundant properties of nickle. It's not cost effective to spend so much while the inferior product "made in china" turbochargers are flooding the market. Not too many cryogenic company out there and i'm sure the cost of this process is staggering. So, the availability and the cost of this process to regular enthusiast is unreacheable...for now!

For the meantime, until the government regulates/curve the fake-fraud made in china, i will not spend a dime.
Someday, I love to see "made in the USA" back in the shelves.
I have yet to see a con!!! Besides, how much do you think it costs to have a turbo done? I do entire engines for $1800! A turbo would only cost $150-200 max! If your buying a Borg Warner or Garrett charger I will guarantee that under normal use (non abusive and set up correctly) you will get at least 3 times the life. I will make you a deal, send us a piece that you want treated and I will do the first One on the house! We have plants in morresville NC, park city Il, Palo Alto Ca, and Camarillo Ca. Most cryo treaters are scammers have zero knowledge of how it all works and it has completely ruined the cryo industry. Our founders are metallurgists and scientist that do the r&d on house. My email is on a previouse post your always welcome.
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post #28 of 109 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a bulletproof 500+ft lbs transaxle with great potential, but rather expensive.

Current Application:
EMCO designed the GA46 Transaxle expressly for the Daytona Prototype classification and for competition in 24-hour endurance racing. The GA46 first proved its reliability by flawlessly completing a 28-hour test at Daytona on November 6-7, 2002. Subsequently, the GA46 has run successfully in all the races of the 2003 Grand-Am Rolex Sportscar Series, including the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona where it helped Multimatic capture the Daytona Prototype class victory.
By November 1st, 2003 the GA46 was in 9 of the 10 cars (3 of 4 manufacturers) competing in the final race of the Rolex Series including the Team Champion Bell Motorsports No. 54 Chevrolet Doran JE4 with its Driver Champion Terry Borcheller.
February 1st, 2004: The Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona overall race winner Bell Motorsports No. 54 Pontiac Doran JE4 shifted the GA46 to victory logging over 1800 race miles and over 12,500 shifts! All eleven Daytona Prototype GA46 customers competing in this grueling race combined for more than 13,000 trouble free miles over the course of the race.
More Information
GA46 - EMCO Gears, Inc.
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post #29 of 109 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 12:18 PM
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post #30 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Except bold and pioneering installation by Mike Rodrigues, has anyone else used ZF 5- DS-25 series transmission in Esprit?

Apparently, wide range of gear ratios are available from this company: http://www.rbttrans.com/
ZF requires a new bellhousing, which is prototyped and available from NZ foundry.
A group buy could be arranged if 10 buyers would commit to purchase.


http://www.thecarnut.com/Manuals/Bora_Transaxle.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ZF_transmissions

http://file.seekpart.com/keywordpdf/...1716259640.pdf

http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Tec...quirements.pdf

Bora's had 3.77:1 ring and pinions in them instead of the 4.22:1 that a Pantera uses!
Panteras used the ZF well into the 90's!

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 02-04-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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post #31 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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ZF 5-DS-25/2

Not inexpensive, but bullet-proof:

Hello, yes both versions have LSD
5-speed: $12.500.00 150lbs
6-speed: $15,000.00 165lbs
Torque on both is 500lbs HP 550

Lloyd Butfoy
RBT Transmissions
RBT Transmissions
(714)630-2450
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post #32 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 04:35 PM
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If you want to go to a G50 or Boxster transmission, then you should probably contact G-Box here in Boulder Colorado. They also specialize in helping convert/engineer the Porsche transmissions for kit cars.

KITCAR SERVICES-GBOX Transmission

They are right next to my favorite brewery (Avery), where you can find me in their tasting room at least once a week.

Travis
Vulcan Grey Esprit 89 SE

My Lotus Project Photo Collection
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post #33 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 04:51 PM
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One of the best places to learn about transaxles is GT40s.com These guys are all using V8's and there is a lot of informaiton on that forum. When I was building a GT40, the most popular were the UN1, G50 and Audi. BTW, internal parts from the Porshe 944 transaxle can be used in the Audi 5 speed to achieve better gear ratios.

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech...in-transaxles/

1989 Lotus Esprit
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post #34 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-05-2013, 06:48 PM
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For what you are going to spend doing the trans swap you could probably afford to go through 3 UN-1 boxes. Unless you are tracking the car it probably isn't worth it and if you ARE tracking the car you must consider it disposable (the whole car) because if you are driving that close to the car's limits you are going to bend the car eventually. For all but the most extreme driving the UN1 with the Holloway upgrade and the Quaiffe diff is more than enough. A lot depends on how you treat it. Shock loads will quickly rip the teeth off the crown wheel and damage the gears. The UN1 was not made for drag races and "dumping" the clutch. Other than that it can last a long time. Upgrading the tranny only leads to upping the HP on the motor. Then it's the brakes. Then it's the cooling. On and on. Where do you stop? If the Lotus is not enough car for you maybe a better swap is to get another car. Before you start going down a very expensive road you should know where you intend to wind up. Do not discount resale value of your modified car. Even though you will put a LOT of expensive parts into it you may actually DECREASE the value of the car! Especially after you start flogging it!
David Teitelbaum
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post #35 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-06-2013, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm...
Does everything in life has to be measured in "profit" and "resale value"?

Do you know, why Nik Wallenda crossed Niagara Falls walking the 1/2" rope suspended 200 feet up over the biggest waterfall in North America?

For the thrill of the event! And, also, because... he could!

For few, the JOURNEY is more important than the arrival at the final destination.

That marks the difference between "having" and "being", (Erich Fromm)

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post #36 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-06-2013, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Hmmm...
Does everything in life has to be measured in "profit"
and "resale value"?[snip]
To be fair, the OP mentions his intention is to modify the Esprit and sell for a profit. Traditionally, that's a tough proposition and others are merely highlighting that goal will be difficult to achieve.

I knew buying my 88 Esprit involved no profit or resale value.

Surprising how many recent Esprit purchases involved buyers that didn't realize that fundamental fact. The OP apparently has done conversions that were profitable by his measure, so the Esprit should be quite the challenge, yes?

The OP's goal of V8 conversion looks very interesting and I look forward to seeing the adventure unfold

Eddie B
87 Esprit 'SLEEK GT'
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post #37 of 109 (permalink) Old 02-06-2013, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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post #38 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Here is something to admire...

Mike Rodrigues' bullet proof drivetrain, similar to the legendary BMW M1.

He has installed ZF5-DS-25 on his 430HP R-87 ET, (Radical 87 Esprit Turbo).

The half shafts are gun-drilled, Ti-Al nitride shafts custom made by GKN Motorsport, while the CV joints are the lightened and honed Motorsport joints supplied for Indy Cars.

Note the chassis welding and fabrication - new lower frame tubes, revised lower lower arm mounting points and adding a rear shelf behind the U tube of the chassis. You also need to open the cutout in the body extend the rear of the trunk floor because the ZF is longer. Because the ZF is longer, there's less room for a muffler, which had to be custom made as well.

The ZF rights and tooling were sold to RBT Transmissions which manufactures new boxes in Texas. The box uses a traditional clutch type LSD, which was set to 40% lock.
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post #39 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Bespoke bell housing, cast in NZ,
made fitting ZF tranny to Esprit 910 engine possible.
All of this extensive development has happened 17 years ago!
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 09-19-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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post #40 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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