X180 ESPRIT TURBO FUEL TANKS-DIY - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-01-2016, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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How to prevent fuel sloshing when cornering?

OE tanks have two intersecting baffles, one horizontal and one vertical.
If your tank builder omits the vertical baffle (ask why?), you're SOL.

One very effective method to prevent rapid fuel movements is to fit an aluminum honey comb to the bottom of each tank. Use small cell (1/4") and very thick substrate (T=5" or more). You can do both, it won't hurt anything.
Works like charm, all day long!
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-02-2016, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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This afternoon, I found the can filled with rust flakes. This was a first batch of junk I flushed out of my old tanks hoping I won't need to pull them out.
Well preserved evidence. LOL.

Well, it goes straight into garbage, I need a closure.
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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Well, it goes straight into garbage, I need a closure.
Don't throw it out just yet, you dropped a nickel in there!!!

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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-03-2016, 05:15 AM
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Pour epoxy in there, mix it up and allow it to harden. Use it as a paper weight.
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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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To minimize any sloshing when you're low on fuel, the best method is to fit a 4-6" tall
Aluminum Honeycomb Sheet / Honeycomb Grid Core (1/4" Cell) at the bottom of each tank.
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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:54 PM
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With today's "gasoline" I'd be afraid to expose so much thin aluminum surface area in the tank for fear of the next can being full of aluminum flakes! Can't baffle any better than a tall grid though...

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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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The Negative Affects of Ethanol on Fuel Systems

I fully agree.
I won't use E-10 in my car, EVER!
~~
The National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) opposes the use of marine fuels that contain greater than 10% ethanol content by volume. This position is based on safety and durability concerns and supported by many well documented studies.

According to state boating registrations, there are over 12 million recreational boats in the United States. Boat builders utilize five types of materials to fabricate fuel tanks. These are aluminum, steel, cross-link polyethylene, high density polyethylene and fiberglass. For a rough estimate of today’s numbers, there are approximately four million boats that have aluminum fuel tanks; approximately seven million have steel or polyethylene tanks, and less than one million have fiberglass tanks. The data clearly indicates that the increased use of ethanol in gasoline has raised safety and durability issues for aluminum and fiberglass fuel tanks.

Aluminum Fuel Tanks

In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased.

There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. .

The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.



Fiberglass Fuel Tanks

NMMA is in the early stage of evaluating the effects that ethanol in gasoline has on fiberglass tanks. Boat U.S., the boater advocacy association, recently issue a consumer alert reporting that owners of older yachts have experienced leaking fiberglass fuel tanks. There have also been reports of heavy black deposits on the intake valves of marine engines resulting in bent push rods, pistons and valves. Some of the preliminary analysis conducted by an independent lab found the deposits to be di-iso octyl phalate, a chemical found in the resin, gel coat and filler used to make fiberglass fuel tanks.

An initial theory is that when ethanol is introduced to the fuel tank the very small ethanol molecules diffuse into pores between the resin where they dissolve the unreacted phalates. Since the phalates are in solution they are able to pass through the fuel line filters. These phalates have exceptionally high temperature stability and remain intact when the fuel evaporates in the carburetor or undergo only partial decomposition in the combustion chamber thus creating the heavy black deposits on the engine’s intake valves.

Unlike aluminum, NMMA has yet to identify the effect that ethanol in fuel has on the tanks integrity or even the root cause of dissolved phalates. The theory is that it is being caused by ethanol and we know that ethanol dissolves phalates, but more testing is currently being conducted.

Conclusion

As stated in the opening paragraph, the NMMA has serious safety and durability concerns with the incremental increase in ethanol content in gasoline motor fuel. The majority of marine engines in use today are open loop systems that are designed, engineered and calibrated at the factory to operate with fuel containing either 10% MTBE or ethanol. Changing the fuel that these engines were designed, engineered and calibrated for will negatively effect driveability, exhaust and evaporative emissions, and potentially damage the components.

While these issues are significant, the boaters have a far more serious issue. The available data indicates that aluminum and fiberglass fuel tanks and butyl rubber fuel hoses that are currently being used will fail if the ethanol content is increased to 20%. That is not an emissions issue; it is not a driveability or durability issue. It is an issue that needs to be taken far more seriously. It is a threat to the health and safety of the boaters in your state.

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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 09:11 AM
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Fuel Compatibility | Lotus Cars

Quote:
TOYOTA POWERTRAIN FUEL REQUIREMENTS FOR ELISE, EXIGE AND EVORA

Below is an extract taken from page 101 of the Evora Owner's handbook (all languages), the information contained is applicable to all Lotus vehicles using 1ZZ, 1ZR, 2ZZ, 2GRFE standard production engines. Please note that this information cannot be guaranteed if unauthorised modifications have been carried out to the engine, engine management, and fuel or emission systems.

Lotus has NOT tested Ethanol on the Rover K series engine or its associated fuel control systems so we CANNOT recommend the use of Ethanol Fuel for Lotus vehicles using the ROVER powertrain.

Lotus Model Production Year E10 Compatible?
Elan 1989 - 1991 No
Esprit (4cyl. carburettor) 1987 - 1989 No
Esprit (4cyl. fuel injection) 1989 - 1999 Yes
Esprit (V8) 1998 - 2004 Yes
Elise (Rover) 1996 - 2004 No
340R 2000 No
Exige (Rover) 2001 - 2002, 2004 No
Elise (Toyota) 2004 onwards Yes
Exige (Toyota) 2004 onwards Yes
Europa 2006 - 2010 No
Evora (Toyota) 2009 onwards Yes

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post #51 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:05 PM
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A major problem is assuring that, during the blending process, the refinery does not exceed the 10% limit. It happens. A while back there was a bunch of gas stations in the area (primarily Lukoil but others too) that got a bad batch of gas and every car that filled up got stuck on the highway as they pulled out and all over the GWB. A couple of dozen cars before they figured it out and shut the stations down. Cars that just topped off got a little further but also got stuck. Another problem with E-10 and above is that as the fuel ages it separates into fractions and the water drops out and settles to the bottom where the fuel pick-up is and you get water, not fuel. Small engine manufacturers warn that any fuel mixed with 2 cycle oil is bad after 30 days! E-10 is only good if you keep it fresh. After 6 months it is no good. Stabilizer only keeps it from separating a while longer but the motor will run like cr-p till you burn it up and refill with fresh. Here in New Jersey the only way to buy gasoline without Ethanol is to go to an airport. Airplanes that use 100 octane LL have an even bigger problem because the EPA wants to discontinue it and to this date there is no good, approved substitute for it. Doesn't matter to the EPA, they are telling the FAA to set a date to discontinue it. The farmers will get paid to grow more crops so we can turn it into gas! BTW, as the Ethanol content increases the BTU per gallon deceases so the mileage goes down. You burn more to get less. And as the % of Ethanol increases so does the water content and water doesn't burn! We knew for a long time E-10 and above destroys the rubber in the fuel system, now we see it also attacks the metals over time. The answer to the boater's problem is going to be retro-fitting to be able to use the junk they are calling gasoline. They also have another problem, at least here in the north, when they store the boats over the winter and the fuel sits for months. Used to be it you were told to store with full tanks to prevent condensation. Since a bunch of boat yard fires they are supposed to empty the tanks for the winter now. It seems E-10 burns really good and catches fire easily!
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post #52 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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post #53 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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If you go for the aluminium tanks, you must insist on using 5052, 5086 hi-corrosion resistant, or 5083 marine alloys.

Yes, aluminium corrodes in contact with ethanol and methanol, although not as fast as steel.
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post #54 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-19-2018, 05:41 AM Thread Starter
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post #55 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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All octane boosters, like Klotz, Torco, Race Gas, etc., are highly corrosive.
NEVER store your car for longer period with this mixture in the tank.
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post #56 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Fuel Tank Removal on Esprit SE, S4s

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Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Aaaahhh, rusty tanks...



Removal:
1. Interference with seat belt bracket. No way around it. Use 4' crow bar and brute force to bend the top tank flange inboard. Use 1/8" steel plate to protect the bulkhead below the bracket. Push up and support the tank with pieces of 2x2 inserted into the bottom rocker panel hole. Wiggle the tank and roll it over the side.

2. Pulling out the LH tank is a grand PITA.
Follow the "engine drop" method to open up the gap on the left side.
First, the engine has to be lifted to facilitate engine mount removal (both sides have to be removed!). Next, the engine may be lowered to open the cam tower-to-buttress gap, which is very tight, even when with the engine "dropped".
The cross-over spigot pipe at the bottom of the tank fouls the well wall side during removal. I've simply cut it off in-situ.
If the gap is still not large enough, go ahead and jack the LH rear body lifting point to gain couple of millimeters, or remove the left engine support "leg" (three, bolts with 13mm heads), and tilt the engine further down.
BTW: Check these bolts for tightness, because they have a morbid tendency to vibrate loose.

RH tank comes out easier (!) providing the plenum cover is removed.
.
Tanks are heavy and awkward to manipulate. For convenience and better grip use small vice grips locked securely over the top flange. They act as a are very nice "handles".
Question has arisen if "engine drop" procedure works on SE/S4/S4s cars.
IMO, yes, however, intake cam cover, jacking capsule and chargecooler have to be removed.

Note: I found this picture on the web. It is puzzling how this tank got flipped on its side, I've never thought it is possible.
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post #57 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Filler neck hose diameter

The old, hard petrified filling & burp hoses must NOT be re-used, they wont seal at the joints.
Fortunately, 21 Century science gave us many excellent choices.
Larger hose can be obtained inexpensively from Amazon.
Always verify your tank spigot inlet OD and hose ID.

On 88' ET, I fitted Gates # 23976 Filler Neck Hose (2-1/4" ID dia). Burp hose has 1" ID.
Beware: later cars may have a different inlet neck OD-s!
The smaller, 1" ID hose is Goodyear #38049.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 01-28-2019 at 07:19 PM.
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post #58 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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post #59 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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