Radical rebuild of my 1967 Elan - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 10:56 AM
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what is the motion ration on the rear suspension? is it raising rate?

id be a little concerned about the upper links and push rod, links are a bit "long" but likely ok in practice... as things flex under lateral loads in not convinced the push rod won't scrap... which is why they are always "inside". why that odd position against the leading upper link? do the rockers connect an ARB?

"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
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post #22 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 10:59 AM
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Hi Steve, I'm in Warrington, Cheshire.
Yeah these things do seem to go on longer than you expect. I built a Stratos replica many years ago - have a look at the end of the Evora thread: "what have you got in your garage", and that build was a never ending process really as I kept changing things!!
I'm hoping to be getting mine mostly sorted out by summer next year.
Famous last words.
Keep up the good work Steve - you workmanship is truley impressive.
up the purists!
Dave
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post #23 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 01:17 PM
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Impressive engineering and build Steve.

I'm always in awe of the individual builders who have a vision and pursue it no matter what the cost or outcome. Have done it a few times myself. My wallet finally said "enough" as there is no end to the modifications, enhancements and constant tweaking to get it just right.

Keep us informed, now that you have our attention

65 Elan S2 - Restored & For Sale
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64 Elan S1 - Restored & Not for sale
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post #24 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 01:55 PM
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Steve, Two thumbs up on your build.
very impressive. let me know if you need a hand. I m not much of a mechanic but
like to thinker around but do not have a deep pocket.
Will work for free. I can find a nice corner in your garage to crash in after the days work
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post #25 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
what is the motion ration on the rear suspension? is it raising rate?

id be a little concerned about the upper links and push rod, links are a bit "long" but likely ok in practice... as things flex under lateral loads in not convinced the push rod won't scrap... which is why they are always "inside". why that odd position against the leading upper link? do the rockers connect an ARB?
If I remember correctly, 1:1.4. I believe it is rising rate but I am no suspension expert. The dampers and springs were built to my suspension guru's specifications at no small cost. I will ask him the question.

What do you mean by the upper links?

The push rods has been on my mind so I have decided to sleeve them with another carbon tube with them glued together, more than doubling their stength. With rod ends at both ends all forces on the push rods will be longitudinal, as far as I can see.

There are no ARBs. These have been replaced by droop limiters. Again, I am no expert so just following instructions :-) I have provision to fit ARBs if required.

When you choose to not run with the herd, you take the chance of being eaten. We are looking to build a very quick road legal 1/4 mile car but coming at it from a circuit racer's perspective. However, my chassis guru (Graham Hatherway) used to hold the Guinness World Speed records for Fastest Production Car 0-60 3.07sec, 0-100 7.06sec, 0-100-0 12.6secs, which stood up until 200 (in a RS200), so I have some pretty experienced help.
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post #26 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsamani View Post
Steve, Two thumbs up on your build.
very impressive. let me know if you need a hand. I m not much of a mechanic but
like to thinker around but do not have a deep pocket.
Will work for free. I can find a nice corner in your garage to crash in after the days work
Thanks Ramon for the thumbs up, much appreciated. I wasn't sure whether this build would be of any interest to guys on this site as the car is rather old compared to the majority on here.

Thanks for the offer of help. However, there are two problems:

1. I am in England :-)
2. No one spanners on my car (not even my car savvy friends) except me. If I die through something not done properly I want it to be my fault.
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post #27 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Certified Lotus View Post
Impressive engineering and build Steve.

I'm always in awe of the individual builders who have a vision and pursue it no matter what the cost or outcome. Have done it a few times myself. My wallet finally said "enough" as there is no end to the modifications, enhancements and constant tweaking to get it just right.

Keep us informed, now that you have our attention
Thanks Glen.

I have stopped counting as it would scare me. It is my only expensive hobby and costs are spread over a few years.

Being anal about weight has cost me plenty. What started out as a couple of titanium bolts has snowballed into every bolt I can change to titanium I am. Cost has been spread over many months but it must be over a grand sterling by now. But, hell, I can't take it with me :-)

This, apart from a Ford Anglia back in the early 70s, is the only car I have modified, and will probably be the only one as it will never be 'finished'.

A big part of the fun is doing something that I don't think has been done before. This means that the journey is littered with unforseen problems (challenges) that have to be overcome. I love that.
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post #28 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-31-2014, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
what is the motion ration on the rear suspension? is it raising rate?
Just got the answer back from my guru:

"The suspension motion ratio gives a linear rate. Springs give a stepped rate. Dampers are speed sensitive but in round terms the front and rear are linear"
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post #29 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-02-2015, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Suspension finally finished, apart from torquing up the last bolts and fitting CV gaiter clamps.





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post #30 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-03-2015, 08:51 PM
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Lovely job Steve. Following this on 2 forums!"

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post #31 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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Lovely job Steve. Following this on 2 forums!"
I will try to keep them consistant :-)

Which one?
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post #32 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:52 AM
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I will try to keep them consistant :-)

Which one?
LotusElan.net

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'72 Europa TC
'05 Elise
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post #33 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 10:50 AM
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I thought Jay Leno's Elan was Awesome, but it doesn't compare to yours.
You've done an excellent job so far, keep it up.

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post #34 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 12:18 PM
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I have a question:

What are the small diameter ( looks like aircraft cable) heim-joint ended links that go between the shock tower and lower a-arm front and back??? Just travel limiting straps, or....?

Love the build! My dad is in the middle of a series 2 resto which is stock, but we love and appreciate what you are up to!

Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming
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post #35 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BUELL XB12R View Post
I thought Jay Leno's Elan was Awesome, but it doesn't compare to yours.
You've done an excellent job so far, keep it up.
Thanks,I will do my best.
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post #36 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallagher View Post
I have a question:

What are the small diameter ( looks like aircraft cable) heim-joint ended links that go between the shock tower and lower a-arm front and back??? Just travel limiting straps, or....?

Love the build! My dad is in the middle of a series 2 resto which is stock, but we love and appreciate what you are up to!

Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming
The wire straps are droop limiters, but they are also being used as part of the suspension geometry in lieu of ARBs. Don't ask me how this is going to work as I haven't a clue. I am leaving this to my suspension/handling guru who I have complete trust in.

Thanks for the thumbs up. Have you started a thread for your Dad's restoration? If not, why not? :-)
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post #37 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Engine and gearbox will be back in the chassis shortly.

Engine Spec:

Sierra Cosworth 2000cc 4 cylinder modified engine:
Approx 520bhp on pump fuel
Ford Motorsport 200 block
Long studded (6)
Balanced knife-edged lightweight WRC crank
8.2:1 compression ratio
High pressure oil pump
Big winged WRC sump (modified)
Steel windage tray
Group A rods
Mahle pistons with R4 pockets
Group A ported and gas flowed 2WD head
Hydraulic lifters
WRC phase sensor
Escort WRC inlet manifold
Piper BD14 inlet and exhaust cams
Piper vernier cam pulleys
Piper valve springs
WRC steel head gasket
4WD exhaust manifold
Custom made 3” exhaust system (Primary Designs) Plasma coated by Zircotec
T4 RS500 turbo with 60 trim compressor housing and 360 degree bearing
.31 Actuator
8x Seimens injectors
Distributorless ignition system (camshaft pickup)
Wasted spark coil pack (Motorcraft) and high performance plug leads.
4WD steel flywheel
Twin plate cerametallic Alcon clutch assembly
3 bar MAP

Gearbox

Elite IL300 6 speed sequential
1.908
1.525
1.282
1.085
0.930
0.810

Diff:

Sierra Cosworth 7 1/2" with Quaife ATB
1:3.85

Theoretical top speed @ 8250rpm is 188mph.

Make of this lot what you will :-)
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post #38 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 06:08 PM
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the rear bell cranks looks like the motion ratio has 2 adjustable points yes, looks to be linear.

will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the "droop limiter" that "can" induce witchy behavior in lieu of ARB. (more of an on off switch vs. a progressive system) not saying thats bad... just something to be aware of.

"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
-Lotus Cars VP of Global Design
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post #39 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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Linear movement but progressive springing via the tender springs.

Yeah, I don't know how it will work either. I think most of the magic is in the bespoke dampers.

The Elan doesn't have a rear ARB as standard so we are not removing anything from this end.

The proof will be in the pudding. This amount of modification to a road legal Elan has not been done before, as far as I am aware, so we are in uncharted waters and may hit a few submerged rocks :-)
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post #40 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 10:36 AM
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Linear movement but progressive springing via the tender springs.

Yeah, I don't know how it will work either. I think most of the magic is in the bespoke dampers.

The Elan doesn't have a rear ARB as standard so we are not removing anything from this end.

The proof will be in the pudding. This amount of modification to a road legal Elan has not been done before, as far as I am aware, so we are in uncharted waters and may hit a few submerged rocks :-)
lol! yes, but its not really rocket science to put together a suspension - just lots of math and geometry, most beyond me as well

all just a 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another ways to skin a kitten. changing the motion ratio would/could radically change your damper valving - particularly if its valved to match the progressive spring positions. i "think" i prefer bump stop over droop limiters... still playing around with that...

well it looks super cool and best of luck and can't wait to see it rolling!! keep it up!

and i would keep an eye on the pushrods and upper arm, that nothing is rubbing under high loads.

"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
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