Buying a 430 in the states - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:19 PM
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I'd need to see data regarding their side by side track endurance, I'm not sure I buy that.
Cars like the 570S are for those who can’t row their own gears, or heel and toe. If I’m buying a high performance or track car I want to be doing the driving and not just flipping a paddle.
Understandable, but totally subjective, and what data exists, doesn't support your stance past personal preference. Senna, Vettel, and Schumacher would also beg to differ lol
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post #22 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:49 PM
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Understandable, but totally subjective, and what data exists, doesn't support your stance past personal preference. Senna, Vettel, and Schumacher would also beg to differ lol
Senna shifted his own gears.

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post #23 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:53 PM
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Understandable, but totally subjective, and what data exists, doesn't support your stance past personal preference. Senna, Vettel, and Schumacher would also beg to differ lol
Apples and Oranges.

I think you're just guessing at what those race car drivers would prefer when not driving professionally. There are plenty of fighter pilots who'd prefer a glider on a weekend.
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post #24 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:58 PM
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Ok I give up $160k Evora > $189k 570s lol
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post #25 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 01:20 PM
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:-) here is the Jalopnik (not R&T article) about the Evora 400's (in this instance) track prowess

https://jalopnik.com/the-lotus-evora...r-d-1784855962

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"A McLaren 570S could not do this. Nor could a Porsche 911 GT3. And yet the Evora 400 will do it again and again throughout the course of the day, and it will do it in crippling heat. The brakes donít fade. The tires donít go away. It is the Sebastian Coe of track cars. It is, quite simply, the best street car Iíve ever driven on track, bar none."
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post #26 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 01:27 PM
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cars that can actually be taken on the tracked and flogged all day are different than can that turn in a few quick laps by buff mags-
Dont believe what th le magazines say, but heres a nice Jalopnik article hahaha. Not coming at you, I just found it funny lol 🍺

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post #27 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 01:35 PM
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I like LT because you guys are all true believers!
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post #28 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 01:39 PM
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I like LT because you guys are all true believers!
Second most tribalist car following only to VW. Lol
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post #29 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 05:52 AM
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150K for a GT430? Theyíre pricing themselves out of the market (at least when it comes to me).

Iíd lean towards the GT410 Sport anyway as the carbon front and rear clams on the 430s concern me wrt sourcing a new one after getting even a light tap at the traffic light.
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post #30 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 07:52 AM
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Those past F1 aces didn't have the luxury of the gearboxes available now. I can promise you if it made them faster....they'd use it.

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post #31 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 08:49 AM
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Those past F1 aces didn't have the luxury of the gearboxes available now. I can promise you if it made them faster....they'd use it.
X2
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post #32 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 10:45 AM
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Those past F1 aces didn't have the luxury of the gearboxes available now. I can promise you if it made them faster....they'd use it.
X3
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post #33 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 07:01 AM
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I heard they're not going to get here, and I believe that.

I'd argue that the 400 is considerably more than "half the car" the McLaren is. I think that's unfair to the 400 and how it accomplishes its mission. But I'd also agree that McLaren can justify a $200K 570 far easier than Lotus can justify a $150K 430. And if we're talking about road cars the same is true when comparing a 150K Lotus to several Porsches at the same price. At sub $90K,(85 is a solid tipping point imo) the 400 becomes a real bargain. The competition at that level (new to new) is a 718S. The Cayman provides less spice than an Evora does. I don't know anybody who thinks the cars have the same impact or driver appeal.

Anecdotally it seems like more 400s are starting to sell now that the price has dropped (sometimes significantly) below 90K for a new car. At that price, comparisons to any McLaren fall flat and don't have any relevance in the marketplace.
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post #34 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 07:53 AM
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I heard they're not going to get here, and I believe that.

I'd argue that the 400 is considerably more than "half the car" the McLaren is. I think that's unfair to the 400 and how it accomplishes its mission. But I'd also agree that McLaren can justify a $200K 570 far easier than Lotus can justify a $150K 430. And if we're talking about road cars the same is true when comparing a 150K Lotus to several Porsches at the same price. At sub $90K,(85 is a solid tipping point imo) the 400 becomes a real bargain. The competition at that level (new to new) is a 718S. The Cayman provides less spice than an Evora does. I don't know anybody who thinks the cars have the same impact or driver appeal.

Anecdotally it seems like more 400s are starting to sell now that the price has dropped (sometimes significantly) below 90K for a new car. At that price, comparisons to any McLaren fall flat and don't have any relevance in the marketplace.
Everything both ways is no doubt mostly subjective, but I'd bet you haven't driven a 570S based on it. No right or wrong answers here, but trying to explain how much better the 570 is by virtually any measure than the Evora to someone who hasn't driven it, is like trying to explain how much better the Evora is than the Cayman to the Porsche guys who haven't driven an Evora. The 570 is life changing, and with a $3500 decat and dyno tune, 100 more hp, it crosses into the realm of hyper car, fire breathing and all.
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post #35 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 08:05 AM
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Everything both ways is no doubt mostly subjective, but I'd bet you haven't driven a 570S based on it. No right or wrong answers here, but trying to explain how much better the 570 is by virtually any measure than the Evora to someone who hasn't driven it, is like trying to explain how much better the Evora is than the Cayman to the Porsche guys who haven't driven an Evora. The 570 is life changing, and with a $3500 decat and dyno tune, 100 more hp, it crosses into the realm of hyper car, fire breathing and all.
And your experience driving the the 430 and the 570 is what exactly?
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post #36 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 08:54 AM
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At 150-160k, 430 needs to be a very limited edition like the Final editions of the Elise/Exige back in 2011. Itís a tough price point for many buyers, including myself. Now if the 430 is all carbon fiber (including the chassis) and weighting in around 2600 lbs, then itís a bargain. I would order/spec one straight from the factory.
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post #37 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 09:08 AM
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Everything both ways is no doubt mostly subjective, but I'd bet you haven't driven a 570S based on it. No right or wrong answers here, but trying to explain how much better the 570 is by virtually any measure than the Evora to someone who hasn't driven it, is like trying to explain how much better the Evora is than the Cayman to the Porsche guys who haven't driven an Evora. The 570 is life changing, and with a $3500 decat and dyno tune, 100 more hp, it crosses into the realm of hyper car, fire breathing and all.
And your experience driving the the 430 and the 570 is what exactly?
I've driven a 400, and a 2014 Komotec EV430 with upgrades in wheels, tires, and suspension,Granted, not the GT430, but I believe I can make an educated deduction as I've also driven a handful of 570's, one of which was tuned. They aren't on the same planet. Tuned, they're in the 9's... and before you say anything about drag racing, just remember that the 570 is an absolute track weapon as well.
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post #38 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 09:50 AM
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Everything both ways is no doubt mostly subjective, but I'd bet you haven't driven a 570S based on it. No right or wrong answers here, but trying to explain how much better the 570 is by virtually any measure than the Evora to someone who hasn't driven it, is like trying to explain how much better the Evora is than the Cayman to the Porsche guys who haven't driven an Evora. The 570 is life changing, and with a $3500 decat and dyno tune, 100 more hp, it crosses into the realm of hyper car, fire breathing and all.
Spot on, I've never driven a McLaren of any type. I've no doubt (and never have) that the 570 in any configuration is superior to the 400 in any important objective or subjective measure, just as it should be. To further qualify that, as the price of a 430 approaches that of a base or near new McLaren, I too would have a very hard time justifying a 430 as currently presented. In fact, the 570 is the most likely upgrade from my 400 if the time comes. It's highly desirable. I've said so here on several occasions.

But I think it's pointless to compare them (400 & 570) since they're worlds apart given the huge difference in acquisition and running costs. Since the Evora goes such a long way towards achieving a refined balance for the driver it sounds to my ears that saying "the Evora isn't half the car the McLaren is" more like a backhanded slap than an objective measure. More so since a lot of us bought Evoras specifically to sidestep the costs of a McLaren.

There's at least a $100K difference in acquisition price (vs. 400). Any new McLaren is going to be 115 to 120% more expensive than the actual street price of an Evora. I should hope the McLaren is dominant in every category! But just as I'd question the notion that an Evora 400 is twice as good as a base Cayman (it's better but damn if I have the math to say how much) , I'm compelled to pose the same challenge when comparing a McLaren and a Lotus. Plainly I don't see it your way. Still, the 570 would have to be twice as good as an NSX or a 991 GTS because I have driven those and they are not nearly twice the fun to drive while they are close to twice the price, and I think that's the Lotus trick. Impressive street usability and impact at a reasonable price. 'More than twice as good' sounds objectively very difficult to achieve, especially if one is not in need of a 10 second car and is content with the Lotus' accelerative performance. But it's true, I haven't driven a 570 (or a 430) and won't have the opportunity unless I'm in the market again and they actually bring the 430 in.

With the unfortunate for Lotus but good for shoppers discounting, the 400 has become the bargain exotic it was intended to be. The 570 is more like the bargain 488, I'd think. I'm not sure exactly where to place the 430 given the speculation about any potential US price.
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Last edited by lotusquacious; 05-23-2018 at 04:58 AM.
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post #39 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 11:21 AM
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I've driven a 400, and a 2014 Komotec EV430 with upgrades in wheels, tires, and suspension,Granted, not the GT430, but I believe I can make an educated deduction as I've also driven a handful of 570's, one of which was tuned. They aren't on the same planet. Tuned, they're in the 9's... and before you say anything about drag racing, just remember that the 570 is an absolute track weapon as well.
I mean that's fine and all, but I am not 100% sure who you are arguing with exactly. You are comparing a car that is what? $220k new to a car that is $90k new? For someone who appears to own or have owned a lot of cars you should know of the law of diminishing returns when it comes to performance per dollar spent. Otherwise by that logic the P1 should perform 1300% better than a 570S.

None of this means that a 570S isn't worth the money. That's obviously subjective and also limited to the buyers bank account.
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post #40 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 11:26 AM
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You I suppose lol. I don't think you read my previous posts. I was comparing the $160k 430, to the $189k base 570s, and I even went as far as to say a new 400 picked up for less than $90k is a fine choice compared to a 570. Half the car at half the price.
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