Buying a 430 in the states - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 01:56 PM
los
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Originally Posted by XHILR8N! View Post
There have been some discussions in various threads about when and how and how much concerning the 430 and when we can get the keys to them over here.

Lotus of Greenville (SC) is my closest dealer, where we got our Evora in 2011. I sent them an inquiry today and got this response:

Hi Dr. Harris,

I received your email about taking orders for new Lotus GT 430's. They haven't started shipping them yet to the US, but we are taking preorders at this time. We would need to know if you are wanting the Sport model or regular model along with a $5000 partial payment. Estimate price is 150-160k. They are estimating an arrival of next spring. Feel free to email, text, or call me at 864-373-3438 with any additional questions you may have. Hope to have some more info for you shortly

-Will Jones
Sales Consultant
Maserati Lotus Greenville
c. 864.373.3438
o. 864.255.3593
Maserati and Lotus Dealership Greenville SC | Used Cars Maserati Lotus Greenville

What else have any of us heard?
if it is really 150-160k

seriously, I would get a brand new Porsche GT3 with a touring package to get the manual transmission, which is a lot more car than the Evora GT3
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post #62 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 03:21 PM
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It really will be $150k+ here. A few Australia Lotus dealers have marked it up to 276k AUD, or 209k USD!

https://www.prestigeconnect.com/cars...australia/239/

Jay Emm's review of the 430 was not glowing and confirmed my fears - the modest power bump and restyling simply do not justify the $40k price hike.
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post #63 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 04:02 PM
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As the logicians say, the burden of proof is on the person who makes a claim. You made an unsupportable claim and have provided not a scintilla of evidence to support it. But it's good to know that your opinion that the 570 is twice the car is totally subjective. Which means we can all disregard it.
Ok man, I'm beginning to fear that you are either a deeply committed troll, or that you may be compensating for something. First things first. I am entitled to my opinion on this and literally anything else I choose to speak about. Not only did I not make an objective claim, but I even clarified several times that my statements were merely my opinion based on my personal experience, but for some reason you don't seem to comprehend what you read, because you not only disregard that important fact, but you also have quoted me incorrectly. I will NOT preface my opinions on things with IMHO or subjectively, in order to preserve your feelings. That being said as far your "scintilla of evidence" (ugh I've now had to type that dated word 2 more times than I would ever want), I'll only repeat myself... Subjective opinions needn't be supported by data. Vanilla ice cream is twice the ice cream as chocolate, New York pizza is twice the pizza as Chicago, Florida beaches are twice the beaches as California, and the 570S is twice the car as the 400. To be clear, to me, a new $90k 400 is as good or a better value than a $189k 570, but a $160k Evora is not.
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post #64 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by los View Post
if it is really 150-160k

seriously, I would get a brand new Porsche GT3 with a touring package to get the manual transmission, which is a lot more car than the Evora GT3
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Originally Posted by +TSRAGR View Post

Jay Emm's review of the 430 was not glowing and confirmed my fears - the modest power bump and restyling simply do not justify the $40k price hike.
hmm... going to have to see some hard evidence to back up those claims, and it'd better amount to more than a scintilla, or it'll never survive Crazyirish's laugh test.

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post #65 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 04:28 PM
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post #66 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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I think it loses a bit of weight for a good bit of money. This gets expensive once the race to lose weight gets going.

Sure I’d rather have the 570S or GT than any of these Lotus offerings. Those of you who have or have driven both, we sure appreciate your input.

As the thread starter might I ask that the stuff that is becoming personal be left behind? Life is too good to be bothered by juvenile banter. You guys can carry on in private if that’s what floats yr boat.

Over $150 is a game changer for most of us. Not saying it’s not worth it, but some very shiny options come to mind in that range.

I’d like another new Lotus someday, but don’t need a full race car.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
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post #67 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 08:58 PM
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Whilst I'm not in the market for an Evora 430, it does give a 'roadmap' to Evora owners how & where to get the most out of your car. Some of the spec changes of the Evora 430 are more to justify its price at the showroom floor, or for the stats to look good on paper.

For example the carbon roof looks fantastic.... but the standard roof panel is already so thin you can flex it with your fingers, despite it's double bubble curves. The carbon rear hatch on the other hand looks even more fantastic but is usefully lighter that the standard part, vents the engine bay, gives more down force & reduces the rear weight bias.

Equally the 430 (wet) weight is taken in 'base' spec i.e. no AC / NVH insulation / ICE / rear seats / Sparco's.... no one will buy a $150k road car like that. Once you add back in the cost options, the 430 is about 50 KG lighter than a similar spec 400. Bolting-on a light weight battery / exhaust system alone could get you a chunk of the weight saving, again reducing the rear weight bias.

Taking JayEmm's video review as a reference, the biggest +VE change to how it drove were the Ohlins suspension units. These are lighter, adjustable for different driving conditions, engineered to suit the Evora & simply bolt-on + an alinement check. Not cheap, but compared to carbon panels, not expensive either.
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post #68 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 12:14 AM
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So of the 430 is going to have a 150K sticker (Iím out in that case), this begs the question......

Whatís the GT410 Sport going to sticker for here in the U.S.?
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post #69 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 01:20 AM
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Is an Evora GT430 as good as a McLaren 570S? No.

Is it too expensive for what it is? Yes.

Did they spend the money in the wrong place, as usual? Yes.

Is it still an excellent car? Yes.

Would *I* buy one, if I had that kind of money, over a used McLaren? Genuinely, I don't know.

In the UK, a NEW McLaren is realistically £50k more expensive than an Evora. Plus people are paying stupid money for 911 GT3s then not driving them, for fear of ruining values.

The Ohlins suspension, as I drove it, was only just about acceptable for UK roads. However, it is adjustable. The scope of the adjustment, I have yet to feel.

I have driven a McLaren, briefly. A couple actually. They are really quite different cars to the Lotus in many ways.
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post #70 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 03:42 AM
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I think the 430 is awesome in both photos and on paper. It has certainly piqued my interest. But, with the usual delivery delays to the US and now the issue of Lotus appearing to no longer support the initial Evoras, I can't see myself dropping $150K on one.

Its also very concerning that the already difficult parts availability may be getting even worse or nonexistent for our current cars. It makes me wonder about getting parts for a limited edition 430. I'm pretty sure the (limited) GTE owners are already in that boat as well.

Hopefully I am wrong. Admittedly, I have been many times before.
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post #71 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 03:56 AM
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New York pizza is twice the pizza as Chicago,
This one is obviously true, however!
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post #72 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 04:31 AM
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Another big problem with the 430 priced at 150k is that one can buy brand new Evora 400s for about half that amount right now and no way the 430 is twice the car (and I am a guy who generally gravitates towards limited/special edition performance models of cars).


By the way - thank you JayEmm for your very thoughtful and detailed videos!
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post #73 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 07:02 AM
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That we can compare the 400 in the same discussion as the 570 is a victory for Lotus. Nobody should buy a 400 thinking it will match a 570 for impact, features and power yet it does scratch a similar itch. There's no shame in a car costing twice as much being judged the more desirable. Actually, it's a bit of conceit to compare them head to head. The 430 is postured differently. It has to stand direct comparison with the NSX, GT3, and it seems the 570 and now, the ZR1. Now that might even be a problem when a $105K 400 is measured against a basic Carrera 2S but it's not in play for an $85-90K 400. Lotus misjudged the sales for our current cars at over 100K, but as we've said and seen dozens of times, if you sell the car at an aggressive price, they will move off the floor. For better or worse, that's what it takes to reestablish the marque in America. They need to be seen and their role understood.

And let's not kid ourselves. It's not just raw performance that people shop for. Apart from any tactile differences a buyer must factor resale, ease of service, warranty (ours is meh) and feature sets. At current street prices one can objectively demonstrate that the 400 yields superb value as long as outright power is not the only criteria. Although I don't really see it, the comparison between the 400 and the GT3 is frequently attempted. Never mind that. Go direct for the Carrera 2S, a case that is far easier to make.

When you add the 430 to the mix the logic blurs. The 430 needs to very substantially up the 400's game in every category. Americans, apart from a few journos, haven't had the opportunity to drive it, so the 430 remains an enigma until such time as the cars arrive here. We can honorably speculate about the value of the 430 when comparing to the other options, including the 400 itself and still be Lotus fans.

It's not unreasonable to question the value proposition of the 430 in that light, but again, the 400, while in a different performance category than the 570 (or GT3) yet remains a class leading value even compared to a good Corvette depending on one's priorities. There will be two different buyers for those of course but if we're talking about bang for the buck, the Corvette GS needs to be mentioned. Horses for courses, but I see problems if Lotus needs $160K to deliver a street ready car with AC, sound deadening and a radio that is going to look to most people like an up-spec 400. That's a tough sell in the broader marketplace. How fast do you need to accelerate, what do you want for features and how important is feel? For many, that's going to figure in less flattering ways than it does to me. Perhaps they will readily sell the full allocation, and I hope they do. Even so, the numbers will be small enough to not register when compared to other constructors.

There is a wild card in the 430's bag of tricks, it's analog nature and bulldog spirit. If that's as valued in a Lotus as it is in air cooled Porsches and vintage Ferraris, it may stand as the compelling reason to buy a 430. If it's understood that Lotus provides exclusivity and tactile benefits that don't accrue to mass produced cars, then a case can be made. One has to forgo features our cars can't provide and trade them out for the things Lotus does so well.

I think the 400 remains the tip of the spear for good reason, regardless if you like the front end styling or don't. I don't see the ugly some attach to it, but perhaps I'm biased. I also don't see a working argument against elevating the 400's status rather than diminishing it as poor second cousin to the 410 and 430. Lotus needs to whip that horse because at the moment, it's the best option for bulk sales here. And it's a fabulous car. The 430, however great (and none need doubt that it is ) will as a matter of common sense continue to be a very specialized item with appeal mainly to those of us who already value Lotus. But for many it will be a tough choice when or if it goes head to head with high spec Porsches, McLarens, Astons or whatever the case may be for a given individual. The 400? Solid winner and the horse that needs to be whipped.

(The 570 ain't twice the car the 400 is but then again, is the 430? YMMV as usual) Despite my initial sense regarding the 410 (I agreed with Jay Emm on it by virtue of spec alone) that may be the value play in the current Evora lineup if you consider it's special nature and how easy it would be to match the 430's essence with a bit of help from say, BOE and Hethel Sport. But you could accomplish nearly the same thing with a 400 if you're buying it for road use, as most will do.
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Last edited by lotusquacious; 05-23-2018 at 07:32 AM.
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post #74 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-23-2018, 01:21 PM
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The best way to "sell" any Evora, esp the 400 on, is this:

Forget Porsche. Remember how people go misty eyed for classic Ferraris, look at prices of 355s and 360s.

The speed is just right, fast but not obscene. They sound great. They look great. They're actually surprisingly practical.

An Evora delivers that, with a warranty and cheap servicing.
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post #75 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 09:52 AM
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Ok man, I'm beginning to fear that you are either a deeply committed troll, or that you may be compensating for something. First things first. I am entitled to my opinion on this and literally anything else I choose to speak about. Not only did I not make an objective claim, but I even clarified several times that my statements were merely my opinion based on my personal experience, but for some reason you don't seem to comprehend what you read, because you not only disregard that important fact, but you also have quoted me incorrectly. I will NOT preface my opinions on things with IMHO or subjectively, in order to preserve your feelings. That being said as far your "scintilla of evidence" (ugh I've now had to type that dated word 2 more times than I would ever want), I'll only repeat myself... Subjective opinions needn't be supported by data. Vanilla ice cream is twice the ice cream as chocolate, New York pizza is twice the pizza as Chicago, Florida beaches are twice the beaches as California, and the 570S is twice the car as the 400. To be clear, to me, a new $90k 400 is as good or a better value than a $189k 570, but a $160k Evora is not.
You make an absurd claim on a Lotus forum about the 430, a car you've never even driven. When challenged, you can't defend your claim so you resort to name calling (apparently I am crazy). And you call me a troll!

I haven't driven either car, but unlike you I read and listen to those who have and who know what they are talking about.

When the 570S first came out Andrew Frankel of Motor Sport (one of the best car reviewers in the business) said the following (I quote from memory): 'the best compliment I can give to this car is to say that if I closed my eyes while driving it I'd think I was in a Lotus'. In his video review of the 570 spider, Chris Harris praised the steering feel but attributed it to the fact that a number of Lotus engineers were now at Mclaren.

In other words, Lotus knows how to build a driver's car. McLaren is learning how to.

Somebody in this thread mentioned Jay Emm's review of the 430. IIRC, it was all on the road, which is hardly what the car is intended for. This one, on the track at Hethel, is my favourite. Hard to watch it and think that the 570 is twice the car.

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post #76 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 10:06 AM
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You make an absurd claim on a Lotus forum about the 430, a car you've never even driven. When challenged, you can't defend your claim so you resort to name calling (apparently I am crazy). And you call me a troll!
I defended my opinion pretty substantially based on my own perception of value, and also had to defend the principle of a subjective opinion, with which it seems you are still struggling. As far as "name calling" goes, again, like several times up to this point, you're misrepresenting me. There's miles between "I'm beginning to fear that you are either a deeply committed troll, or that you may be compensating for something" and calling you a troll outright, and LIGHT YEARS between that and calling you crazy! I never even said the word crazy, that's all your's my friend. I think the real issue here is that you want this place to be an echo chamber, and any opinion that differs from yours, especially regarding your beloved Lotus will not be tolerated, and worse, face undue criticism.

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I haven't driven either car
Well I have, and I've formulated my opinion outside the pages of a magazine. I think we're done here. Let's argue about something we BOTH have experienced... How do you feel about my opinion on pizza and ice cream?
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post #77 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 10:15 AM
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I defended my opinion pretty substantially based on my own perception of value, and also had to defend the principle of a subjective opinion, with which it seems you are still struggling. As far as "name calling" goes, again, like several times up to this point, you're misrepresenting me. There's miles between "I'm beginning to fear that you are either a deeply committed troll, or that you may be compensating for something" and calling you a troll outright, and LIGHT YEARS between that and calling you crazy! I never even said the word crazy, that's all your's my friend. I think the real issue here is that you want this place to be an echo chamber, and any opinion that differs from yours, especially regarding your beloved Lotus will not be tolerated, and worse, face undue criticism.



Well I have, and I've formulated my opinion outside the pages of a magazine. I think we're done here. Let's argue about something we BOTH have experienced... How do you feel about my opinion on pizza and ice cream?
Yeah, 'cause saying that I am compensating for something is not an insult at all. As for trolling - nothing I've said comes close to trolling. But what you did - making an absurd claim about Lotus' latest fast car on a Lotus forum - is pretty much the definition of trolling. And you called me crazyyirish in a previous post (btw, I know you are barely literate - 'your's' is not a word - but can you at least spell my surname properly when you insult me?).

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post #78 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 10:34 AM
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Yeah, 'cause saying that I am compensating for something is not an insult at all. As for trolling - nothing I've said comes close to trolling. But what you did - making an absurd claim about Lotus' latest fast car on a Lotus forum - is pretty much the definition of trolling.
hahaha really?! Are you this easily "insulted," or are you trying to accrue some kind of "victim" status here to discredit me?

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And you called me crazyyirish in a previous post
Freudian slip

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(btw, I know you are barely literate - 'your's' is not a word - but can you at least spell my surname properly when you insult me?).
I'd probably not use a typo as an avenue to call someone barely literate, unless I were compensating for something. I think the "logicians" would agree lol

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post #79 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 11:15 AM
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So how Ďbout that Evora GT430 making it to the States........
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post #80 of 405 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 11:23 AM
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