I wrote a comprehensive guide on replacing the Evora AC condenser - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
MGB
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Removing the front clamshell was never an appropriate way to replace the condenser. It was misinformation in another thread on the forums, and the Service Notes give the proper technique. (Why aren't you crediting the source document?) Circulating misinformation was one of the things that added confusion to this job.

You clearly didn't read my reply above, which goes into what the guide covers and the shortcomings of that thread, in which you spent thirty minutes giving tips (for which I thanked you!). The mesh and drier listed were unavailable, and I also answered your question above and linked you to a specific drier (https://www.hattink-thermoparts.com/...a-5-8-18unf-2a) and the reason why it's compatible ("You can use any drier that has a 5/8 - 18 UNF male thread fitting with a thread pitch of 1.6mm, as specific in PN. 4, p. 12. It's pretty standard, I'm led to believe. Here's one for 22.50 euros..."). Not content to wait for the free PDF for a guide I haven't even finished yet, you accused me of extorting people if they wished to gain this information. In addition to calling me a thief. No thanks...

Again, as I tried to stress a few times, a lack of clear and accurate information on this topic is what made me want to write a guide in the first place, including photos of every step. I wanted to make a typeset, clear manual that removes the guesswork and misinformation on the forums. Also something longer-lasting than forum posts which can disappear.

Also I can't help but notice that you also got these things from the service notes, uncredited:

Quote:
* how to avoid taking off the front clam
PN. 8 p. 17

Quote:
* the R134a refilling process (pressures, etc)
PN. 6 p. 13

Quote:
* types of lubricating oil to use in the AC system
Also PN. 6

2011 NA Evora
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 10:45 PM
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I'm going to chime in here as a forum member and as a moderator. As a forum member, I honestly take issue with the "for sale" attitude of "help". This forum is a great source of information, and I've never had to pay anything for it. When the shoe is on the other foot and I have information to help a forum member, I can't imagine having the hubris to seek compensation for it. I can't remember ever seeing anyone here (or on any other forum) attempt to sell "how to" information. Offensive is the word I'd use.

As a moderator, I'm going to do two things. First, I'm going to advise everyone here to feel free to post your point of view, but please keep it civil. Second, I'm going to report this thread for the other moderators and administrators to see. There are forum rules to consider (selling goods usually requires vendor status) and perhaps these waters have been tested previously.

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
I'm going to chime in here as a forum member and as a moderator. As a forum member, I honestly take issue with the "for sale" attitude of "help". This forum is a great source of information, and I've never had to pay anything for it. When the shoe is on the other foot and I have information to help a forum member, I can't imagine having the hubris to seek compensation for it. I can't remember ever seeing anyone here (or on any other forum) attempt to sell "how to" information. Offensive is the word I'd use.

As a moderator, I'm going to do two things. First, I'm going to advise everyone here to feel free to post your point of view, but please keep it civil. Second, I'm going to report this thread for the other moderators and administrators to see. There are forum rules to consider (selling goods usually requires vendor status) and perhaps these waters have been tested previously.

San
This is a long thread and has gotten lost. I'd like to point out that from the beginning I said: that when the guide is done, I intend to make the digital version of the PDF free. My point is to sell a hardcopy, printed, in a binder, to anyone who wants it.

As a moderator do you take action against someone repeatedly spreading untruths about what I said? That I was stealing information, withholding it (simply because the guide wasn't done), and repeating this in a number of replies, which has dragged the thread down until it's attracted moderator attention.

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB View Post
This is a long thread and has gotten lost. I'd like to point out that from the beginning I said: that when the guide is done, I intend to make the digital version of the PDF free. My point is to sell a hardcopy, printed, in a binder, to anyone who wants it.
If you want to sell goods on the forum, you'll need to become a vendor. https://storefront.lotustalk.com

San

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
If you want to sell goods on the forum, you'll need to become a vendor. https://storefront.lotustalk.com

San
As another moderator, I will emphasize the above based on your statement that I reviewed (and clarified below):

“Eventually... release the PDF for free...but..I’d like...people buying it.”

If you still intend to sell the hard copy as a 'for profit' venture (above the cost of printing and shipping), you still need to become a vendor as described in the link above.

If you sold the PDF as a 'for profit' venture, same vendor requirements apply.

Yes - we moderators have taken flack for enforcing this rule for small quantities, but the owners of the site (AG) have very clear rules about vendor status requirements.

Your understanding is appreciated.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleekgt View Post
As another moderator, I will emphasize the above based on your statement that I reviewed (and clarified below):

“Eventually... release the PDF for free...but..I’d like...people buying it.”

If you still intend to sell the hard copy as a 'for profit' venture (above the cost of printing and shipping), you still need to become a vendor as described in the link above.

If you sold the PDF as a 'for profit' venture, same vendor requirements apply.

Yes - we moderators have taken flack for enforcing this rule for small quantities, but the owners of the site (AG) have very clear rules about vendor status requirements.

Your understanding is appreciated.
That's fair enough. I didn't know about those requirements.

I'm guessing that attaining vendor status is only viable if someone intends to sell hundreds of dollars worth of goods? Not $60 or whatever the grand total for the hard-copy version of the guide would amount to, surely

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Last edited by MGB; 09-03-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 09:10 AM
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Thanks for making a detailed guide, I am sure it will be useful to those repairing their Evora A/C.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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I finished the guide and put the digital version up for free here (as promised): Lotus Evora

From the beginning I wanted this to be a nicely printed hard copy guide too; I simply prefer them in the garage and I like how they look on my shelf. I'm only selling these hard copies on eBay, though, as I've been told that the forum's existing policies prevent that kind of solicitation from non-vendors. As I only have a few of these to sell, I wouldn't be able to justify becoming a full blown vendor. Thus I won't link to it here.

Anyway, I hope this helps some people have an easier time with this somewhat common problem. As always, let me know on the forums or over e-mail if you have any comments, questions, criticism, etc. It was never my intention to have this thread turn into drama, and I believe I linked to all external sources I used wherever applicable. If the mods allow it, I'll post the PDF in the how-to section too.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:29 PM
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I'm glad I missed all the drama above, thanks MGB for putting the effort into documenting your process, I know that can take quite a bit of time. With any luck this will be a go to guide for many in the future.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MGB View Post
If the mods allow it, I'll post the PDF in the how-to section too.
That would be a great addition to the how-to section.

EDIT: Looking over your guide, and it's very well laid out. I would add another step or add some wording to section 4.4, between steps 4 and 5. After starting the car, before disconnecting the battery, you should wait at least 30 mins for all systems to properly shut down.

2011 Evora NA - Phantom Black | Paprika | MT | 2+.5

Last edited by agentdr8; 09-04-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by agentdr8 View Post
That would be a great addition to the how-to section.

EDIT: Looking over your guide, and it's very well laid out. I would add another step or add some wording to section 4.4, between steps 4 and 5. After starting the car, before disconnecting the battery, you should wait at least 30 mins for all systems to properly shut down.
Very good point. I didn't know that. I'll start a list for things to change in Revision B

Does failure to do that result in the wrench icon showing up on the next startup? I've actually seen that when doing previous jobs. It went away after a few minutes, though.

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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 11:09 AM
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Very good point. I didn't know that. I'll start a list for things to change in Revision B

Does failure to do that result in the wrench icon showing up on the next startup? I've actually seen that when doing previous jobs. It went away after a few minutes, though.
I think not allowing all systems to shut down has led to wrench icons and airbag lights, although I've never actually tested disconnecting the battery without letting it rest first.

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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 12:03 PM
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Thanks for posting this to the forum for others to use. It would be nice if you would post the actual instructions here (to make it searchable and persistent) rather than a link to your site. You could also post the PDF as an attachment, as a second-best option.

My main objection to what you wrote above is that you announced you were selling information instead of... or prior to... providing it here, for free, with no strings, to the community. I still find it distasteful that you are seeking to profit off of this; nobody else on any car forum I've been on has ever done that, and I believe it is fundamentally antithetical to what these forums are about.

This is principally because the forums are about enthusiasts helping other enthusiasts simply for the love of the cars. The profit motive wrecks that. For example, @Dus10 wrote a great how-to on repairing headlights. He posted it on the forum for all to see and comment. It was detailed, illustrated, and HUGELY helpful. He didn't look to profit from it -- all the benefits went to the rest of us here on the forum. And that's what these forums are all about.

(You may respond that what you were asking to be paid for is the printing of a fair copy. I don't find that credible, frankly, given your initial posts on this thread.)

I think it's important to note that posting how-tos on the forum, publicly and for free, also has the effect of making the how-tos better. Other posters can comment, like agentdr8 did above, in ways that improve the overall product. With a PDF, especially one hosted offsite, there's no way to layer comments or improvements. Post the text here in its entirety, on the forum so it is plain and searchable, and we can do that.

My secondary objection to your project is that I don't believe that you were or are inclined to give credit to sources here that you've drawn on. You have avoided, both in your comments above and in the document itself, simply acknowledging that someone else here originated the only ideas that are different in your method vs the shop manual. I'm not looking for credit, still less for my name to be out there. But it sure looks to me like you're the kind of person that just can't say a simple "thanks" when someone gives you concrete help, and that bugs me. My problem, I guess, not yours. And like I said, this is a secondary objection -- whereas trying to profit off of selling assistance to forum members, however you pitch it, hits at the heart of the little community we have here.
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