What T4 ECU applications exist? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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What T4 ECU applications exist?

I have purchased an extra T4 ECU to play with, but it is not behaving as I would expect. I understood the part to be a stock ECU to be for a stock 2005 Elise. The externally labeled part number is A120E0005F.

What car/application could this have come from?

Here is the strange behavior: when I first retrieved memory from the purchased ECU (via CAN routines), it stopped me from accessing memory addresses between 0x40000-0x80000 - my car's ECU and the ROM I read online (both 2005 federal elises) allow contiguous user memory access up to around 0x100000. In the ROM I am reading from online, pretty much all code is below memory address 0x40000, but the data tables are all in the 0x80000 to 0x90000 range.

The T4 ECU has multiple copies in memory of plain-text values (this is normal): https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f171...3/#post4682521

So I went into the ROM from this purchased ECU looking for identifying information: I read a VIN in the ROM which is not unusual: "SCCPC11105HA30000", but the saved part number is unusual: "C117M0039F K205" (for reference, I am under the impression that most 2005 Federal Elise ECU part numbers will look like C121E0001F or B121E0001F). -> A quick online search reveals that this part number is for 2001+ K series/rover S2 elises (I have also read that the A120E0005F number is the european version of the T4), however the Seloc wiki ( Engine Control Unit - TechWiki ) indicates that cars with the rover engine used a K4 ECU, which looks different.

The purchased ECU ROM record of (what I interpret as) software version dates are: "Croft180 5th Nov 03 Lotus Eng" and: "T418f1d 05-03-2004 10:37". I also find "Croft DEVELOPMENT ONLY" as well. It may be that these memory values are left over from past ROMs, but I'm still not sure what accounts for the differences.

Further, the entire ECU board is painted over with clear sealer (as opposed to: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/...95/#post413179 ) and the CPU microchip ID numbers are covered with a sticker (see attached image).

So I wonder, what other vehicles and year models used this ECU? If anyone knows, I would appreciate your input.
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Last edited by Obeisance; 01-22-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:17 AM
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The T4 ECU platform was done by Italian company EFI.

No surprise then, when I randomly caught a glimpse of a Lamborghini ECU, and it looked the same. Maybe that's a start?

Like this


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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 01:06 PM
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EFI make programable high end Motorsport ecus they have the software downloads on their website. They are Italian so no response as yet to my enquiry to sell software to use for tuning the lotus ECU.


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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 02:23 PM
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Croft was the codename for the Federal Elise. This could be a really early engineering prototype ECU. Alternately, it could be a normal ECU which has had a tune applied which has modified the ROM to protect the tuner's calibrations - this is pretty common in the industry. They may have based their ROM on something they found elsewhere, which is why the part number doesn't match the ones you've seen.

Do the Croft strings appear in the 2005 ROMs you have?

Last edited by bri3d; 01-22-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri3d View Post
This could be a really early engineering prototype ECU. Alternately, it could be a normal ECU which has had a tune applied which has modified the ROM to protect the tuner's calibrations - this is pretty common in the industry. They may have based their ROM on something they found elsewhere, which is why the part number doesn't match the ones you've seen.
This is what I am trying to figure out. I purchased this so that I could practice re-writing the ECU firmware via k-line without risk to the ECU in my car, but finding a non-standard ROM on it complicates things.

I currently suspect that the part is a development ECU based on both the ROM contents and the sealed PCB. If it is a dev. ecu, I want to figure out how to read the protected memory via BDM before I start reflashing it so that I don't lose out on potentially interesting information. I was originally hoping that I would not have to figure out how to build a BDM interface.

On the other hand, if the part has a different aftermarket ROM on it that re-writes itself to protect a tuner's calibration, then I am in a sticky situation. I do not want to undermine their effort by exposing sensitive information and have been trying to stay away from ECUs with aftermarket tunes. If this is an aftermarket tune, I hope someone familiar with such information can tell me so that I can figure out how to proceed without breaching their confidence.

Perhaps @turbophil could help identify this ECU.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bri3d View Post
Croft was the codename for the Federal Elise. ...
Do the Croft strings appear in the 2005 ROMs you have?
The two other T4 ROMs which I have looked through both have Croft in their software upload information strings. However neither of them return "DEVELOPMENT ONLY" when OBD PIDs request the CAL ID or vehicle make, model and year (they return something like "Lotus Elise MY05").

Similarly, the two other ROMs have ECU part numbers which look like:
"C121E0001F"
or
"B121E0001F"

and Cal IDs like:
"B121E0002H"
or
"C121E0002H"

Seeing an ECU part number which looks like it belongs with a K-series motor is strange to me. Perhaps the ECU was not a dev part, but rather was used in a different vehicle application?

In any case, when I power it in my car, it properly commands the gauge cluster. I did not try starting the engine, though.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:12 AM
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Prior to the 2005 federalized Elise, Lotus made Toyota Engined S2 Elises for the european market. Those started in 2001/2? Would this ECU be from one of those cars?
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedR View Post
Prior to the 2005 federalized Elise, Lotus made Toyota Engined S2 Elises for the european market. Those started in 2001/2? Would this ECU be from one of those cars?
this is a possibility. i haven't found any info about what engine or model, though. 111s model?
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedR View Post
Prior to the 2005 federalized Elise, Lotus made Toyota Engined S2 Elises for the european market. Those started in 2001/2? Would this ECU be from one of those cars?
I'm pretty sure the switch to Toyota power came in 2004 with the 111R. The previous S2 cars had Rover K series engines so I doubt the ECU would match up.

2005 Nightfall Blue Elise: Sport, Touring, Quantum Zeros, Pro Alloy, BWR De-Cat, Stage II, BOE Torque200 tune
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:28 PM
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The S2 started production in 2001. At some point the 111s was available with the Toyota 1ZZ engine, but I can't find the year it was first offered.

Could the ECU be for a Toyota 1ZZ car?
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 01:36 PM
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T4 was in a Lambo. It used 2 of them as I recall. Not sure of the board differences. Same processor from what I gather.

I've never seen a euro T4 from 2004 in the flesh and that's probably what you have there. The Euro A series 2004 T4s have different boards from ours and all other 2005 B/C/D T4s...

I can get into more, but I'm not real sure how much more info that I should be contributing to projects like this. Lol

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedR View Post
The S2 started production in 2001. At some point the 111s was available with the Toyota 1ZZ engine, but I can't find the year it was first offered.
Thank you for following up with this; I guess I didn't know that the 1ZZ was ever used in the elise. If I understand correctly, according to the SELOC wiki ECU page I linked in the original post, that would have used a T4e- this is consistent with the listing on wikipedia about 1ZZ elise applications falling under a 2008 heading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbophil View Post
I've never seen a euro T4 from 2004 in the flesh and that's probably what you have there. The Euro A series 2004 T4s have different boards from ours and all other 2005 B/C/D T4s...
Thanks for your response. I only wanted confirmation from you that this was not potentially one of your tunes. If you (or anyone else) want any information about this part from me, I'd be glad to supply it, including the ROM.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 04:16 AM
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Hello,

have you been able to remap your ECU ?

I'm the owner of a 2005 elise with T4 ECU and I would like to remap myself but I dont' find any software.

thanks

Yann
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by russel View Post
Hello,

have you been able to remap your ECU ?

I'm the owner of a 2005 elise with T4 ECU and I would like to remap myself but I dont' find any software.

thanks

Yann
ooh.. an unsuspecting guinea pig..

i should try to be conservative in my response:

i have not attempted to remap my ecu.

i wrote a piece of software that allows me to reprogram the ecu code and made an attempt at creating romraider ecu definitions that would in theory allow me to remap the ecu.

if you would like to take the risk of being the first person to ever use my program for this purpose, i would like to recommend caution.

If you could remap your ecu, what would you change?
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 01:30 PM
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I've add on my elise the BOE rev400 with ecu Flash but at low rpm the engine is not running well and in high rpm it is too lean. I'm quite sure that i dont have my 300hp actually that's why I would like to check the map if I can change something.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 02:39 PM
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I assume you received a tune from BOE with the supercharger? Have you contacted @turbophil to resolve your issue?
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-08-2018, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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I was quite excited to finally hear from someone who wanted to try and use the tools I've been working on for the T4 ECU.

Unfortunately, I think it is in my best interest to stay away from BOE (or other aftermarket) modified cars. I do not want to step on the toes of the lotus aftermarket support.

Have you been able to get in contact with turbophil for some qualified help? His expertise should greatly benefit your situation, and his reflashing tool is well developed.

My tool is crude (it works with a VAG com cable that has an FTDI microchip); it requires a person to have a digital version of their ROM in order to build the reflashing messages, and the user interface is not intuitive. My romraider definitions also likely have errors.

I would really like for someone to talk to about using my reverse engineering efforts to reflash the ECU for engine modifications, but I do not think that I want to get involved with a BOE flash.

On the other hand, if you feel like you are competent enough to help me finish creating the tool to modify the ECU (starting with a stock ROM, making changes necessary for boost control), then I would greatly appreciate any collaboration.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 01:33 AM
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Yep I've send him an Email but he still not repsond to me.

I would like to buy their fastwork tune software but it is no longer for sale on their site.

@TedR : Yes, I received it but I always had bad perf. So, I think it's hard for them to build a remote mapping on a car they do not know without having passed it on a power bench. And i would like to learn to do it myself too ! =)
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 07:18 AM
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It is unfortunate that @turbophil is not responding to you. For the price you paid (assuming you did not buy your setup second hand) you should have a tune that works. I would think there is a way to data log a few runs and work with Phil to provide a fix for your tune.

But I also understand the desire to want to learn and be able to tune yourself.

Last edited by TedR; 01-10-2018 at 07:35 AM.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 02:37 PM
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I am not hurry to solve this problem because here it is still winter until the end of April. I always had good contact with the BOE team so Iím sure they will respond and hope help me. I will contact Komotec in Germany. They will probably help me too.

Thanks for your help !

Yann
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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I had experience using ECUFlash with OP 2.0 on my 4B11 car. My elise is using T4E ecu and wonder how well romraider and your definition will work, will you like to give it a try?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obeisance View Post
I was quite excited to finally hear from someone who wanted to try and use the tools I've been working on for the T4 ECU.

Unfortunately, I think it is in my best interest to stay away from BOE (or other aftermarket) modified cars. I do not want to step on the toes of the lotus aftermarket support.

Have you been able to get in contact with turbophil for some qualified help? His expertise should greatly benefit your situation, and his reflashing tool is well developed.

My tool is crude (it works with a VAG com cable that has an FTDI microchip); it requires a person to have a digital version of their ROM in order to build the reflashing messages, and the user interface is not intuitive. My romraider definitions also likely have errors.

I would really like for someone to talk to about using my reverse engineering efforts to reflash the ECU for engine modifications, but I do not think that I want to get involved with a BOE flash.

On the other hand, if you feel like you are competent enough to help me finish creating the tool to modify the ECU (starting with a stock ROM, making changes necessary for boost control), then I would greatly appreciate any collaboration.

2009 Elise S
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