How to ruin Tesla's image and alienate customers... - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
rob13572468's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by smicker View Post
Rob--

1. Take a deep breath...

2. There are a handful of 2008 cars available for $125K, these will be produced at the end of the 2008 run, which continues to be limited to 600 units. This information was communicated to owners by e-mail way back in September. There's no conspiracy or deceit here.

--Paul

I dont think that anyone thinks that there is conspiracy or deceit.. just major impropriety... otherwise why pull the thread 20 minutes after i posted... you know if its not shady what is there to hide.

secondly did you look at the thread.. it was a "hey if you dont want to wait in line then maybe we can work something sideways, wink, like right now..." this was not about cars available 500 deliveries from now.

thats what i am talking about... tesla can do business anyway that they want but its going to be difficult to build trust if the sales people are pulling these kinds of stunts...
rob13572468 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 340
This does not seem improper to me at all. Given current conditions they probably have some buyers dropping out, they may need to move some cars they had not planned on having. This is just common sense. The original post did not seem to be implying anything other than that cars may be available.

You conspiracy theorists and super-cops need to go work on your cars.
lotusland is offline  
post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:00 PM
Registered User
 
Flash G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hollywood Hills
Posts: 3,449
I don't see what the big deal is.

This happens all the time in the car business. "Early adopters" always pay a premium to have the car first. The people who put a deposit down have now received their cars. The company can do whatever they need to do to move cars.

Remember those people who put deposits on the new M3 YEARS before the car came out. They all paid sticker or more. Now you can pick up an M3 for a steal. Should all of those "early M3 adopters" now boycott BMW? No! That's how the business works.


.

Turn your flatscreen TV into a work of art.
Modern Art DVD | Plasma Aquarium DVD | Widescreen Fireplace DVD
07 Exige S - Ardent Red, Stage II Exhaust, LSD, Touring pack
06 Range Rover Supercharged - Java Black
06 Range Rover Sport - Java Black
05 Elise - Ardent Red, Stage II Exhaust, Touring pack
Flash G is offline  
 
post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:50 PM
Registered User
 
FLuXeXigeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal/AZ/NV
Posts: 4,743
i think the people that would really complain and that would matter are people that actually put deposits down and are either 'still waiting' or simply got skipped cus the car was offered to someone else with a price mark up!
the people that took delivery are from the 1st batch
when my stepdad was interested in a tesla a lil over 1 year ago, his deposit would have gone on the 2nd year of production already

i believe most of us know how the automotive world market works, but some things just cus u know is going on doesnt necessarily mean that its right?!?

with that said, i love the concept of the TESLA, but since its release nothing good can be said about them so far!!!

TESLA=FAIL

-Coi- 2010 Evo X MR w/ some extra powahhh
currently having Lotus withdrawals
www.CTDesigns.us
FLuXeXigeS is offline  
post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 03:08 AM
Registered User
 
Bavarian Motorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Yawrk City
Posts: 11,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
This does not seem improper to me at all. Given current conditions they probably have some buyers dropping out, they may need to move some cars they had not planned on having. This is just common sense. The original post did not seem to be implying anything other than that cars may be available.

You conspiracy theorists and super-cops need to go work on your cars.

I think rob is saying that there still are plenty of folks on the wait lists who've had deposits down for a year or more and they should be entitled to any "excess" inventory, not just any Joe the Plumber!

Be an alpha male. Drive a Lotus.

Best Auto Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Bavarian Motorist is offline  
post #26 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 07:08 AM
Registered User
 
mopho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 5,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post
I think rob is saying that there still are plenty of folks on the wait lists who've had deposits down for a year or more and they should be entitled to any "excess" inventory, not just any Joe the Plumber!

Offer wasn't made to just any Joe the Plumber, only Lamborghini Joe's, Lotus Joe's weren't good enough for the offer.

And to think, I would have pulled the trigger on it had the offer been made here, but too late now, I went out and bought a Hummer instead

________________
2004 Caterham 7 Superlight R -
05 Elise SC
67 Lotus Elan (sold but not forgotten)


Last edited by mopho; 12-12-2008 at 07:17 AM.
mopho is offline  
post #27 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 07:13 AM
Registered User
 
Bavarian Motorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Yawrk City
Posts: 11,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopho View Post
Offer wasn't made to just any Joe the Plumber, only Lamborghini Joe's, Lotus Joe's weren't good enough for the offer.

And to think, I would have pulled the trigger on had the offer been made here, but too late now, I went out and bought a Hummer instead


That's an interesting point actually... Why weren't we made this offer!



Hummer: The antithesis of Tesla

Be an alpha male. Drive a Lotus.

Best Auto Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Bavarian Motorist is offline  
post #28 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 07:17 AM
Registered User
 
mopho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 5,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post



Hummer: The antithesis of Tesla

________________
2004 Caterham 7 Superlight R -
05 Elise SC
67 Lotus Elan (sold but not forgotten)

mopho is offline  
post #29 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 07:23 AM
Registered User
 
CK_lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 351
This is getting interesting... maybe somebody ought to send her an email and just ask her! She's a regular here.

"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you´re racing, it’s life, anything that happens before or after is just waiting." (Steve McQueen, 1971)
Daily driver -- '07 Graphite Grey Exige S with all factory options.
CK_lotus is offline  
post #30 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 08:20 AM
Registered User
 
SteveLevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 494
There's also the quite real possibility that these cars are still "owned" by the folks who put up the initial deposits, and while they may not be able to close the deal financially, they are trying to sell their position for a little profit.

Buying and selling "delivery positions" on exotic cars isn't terribly uncommon. Coupled with the current times where people who had smallish deposits (i.e., the folks getting delivery now) and would need to come up with big dollars to take possession...this isn't surprising.

Steve
SteveLevin is offline  
post #31 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 08:43 AM
JWA
Registered User
 
JWA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 6,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK_lotus View Post
This is getting interesting... maybe somebody ought to send her an email and just ask her! She's a regular here.
I've seen here listed as reading this thread a few times, as did Bavarian Motorist. If she wanted to respond, she would have/will. I think that she's probably working damage control with her bosses first.
JWA is offline  
post #32 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
Coupled with the current times where people who had smallish deposits (i.e., the folks getting delivery now) and would need to come up with big dollars to take possession...this isn't surprising.

Steve
Not sure what you consider a smallish deposit, but all deliveries to date and for the next number of weeks are cars that have been paid in full for close to two years. It will probably be well over a month before the first 75K deposit holder's car is delivered and a number of months until the first 50K deposit car is delivered.
Don A is offline  
post #33 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Registered User
 
wallabyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,430
See how Tesla alienates me is by asking the feds for $400,000,000.

See they say they will have built 600 units by years end (doubt it but lets go with that for a moment). At 600 units, that means for each car they build they are asking for $666,666.67 in federal aid. 6 times the MSRP of each of those units.

To compare, GM is asking for 10,000,000,000 to get them out of trouble (based on the most recent package). From January through November this year, GM has SOLD 2,758,705 units. That means they are asking for $362.49 per unit sold in North America.

No by no means am I necessarily in favor of any bailout (Im torn because I see both sides) but how the heck do you legitimately ask for over $650,000 in federal aid for EACH car you have BUILT in 2008?
wallabyguy is offline  
post #34 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:19 AM
Registered User
 
jhnmdahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallabyguy View Post
See how Tesla alienates me is by asking the feds for $400,000,000.

See they say they will have built 600 units by years end (doubt it but lets go with that for a moment). At 600 units, that means for each car they build they are asking for $666,666.67 in federal aid. 6 times the MSRP of each of those units.
No kidding. If a dealer has a couple cars suddenly become free for whatever reason and wants to sell them to whoever will take them, I have no problem with that. I have a huge problem with paying over six times the sale price in tax subsidies to produce each of the cars.

John

edit: to the extent this is a loan and not a grant it's somewhat less egregious; still it seems unlikely they'll ever have the ability to repay such a loan...

Last edited by jhnmdahl; 12-12-2008 at 01:24 PM.
jhnmdahl is offline  
post #35 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Registered User
 
fishguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post
That's an interesting point actually... Why weren't we made this offer!


I imagine it was on the lambo forum and not here because the (posters')feeling is more $ could be made off of those guys than people owning $40K lotus cars.

1977 Crossle 32F
1999 Spec Miata
fishguy is offline  
post #36 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:24 AM
JWA
Registered User
 
JWA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 6,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallabyguy View Post
No by no means am I necessarily in favor of any bailout (Im torn because I see both sides) but how the heck do you legitimately ask for over $650,000 in federal aid for EACH car you have BUILT in 2008?
Their request is a little different in that they're asking for loans to help them bring their electric cars to market sooner, not to stay in business altogether. Congress has the $25 Billion set aside for alternative fuel vehicle development, and they seem to be making one of the most earnest efforts to do just that, so I'd think that they should be considered for loans under that program.

I'd agree, though, that their request for assistance under a bailout type plan wouldn't go very far as if they were to go under it wouldn't impact the larger economy - which is the only reason the government is involved in helping out the big-3 in the first place.

Also, I think that considering the loan amount requested on the basis of the units produced isn't a very good metric. They could just as easily say that they have been able to sell 100% of their production at full prices as opposed to the Big-3 who have inventory piling up and they can't even sell it at a loss, so they are more deserving as a better managed company. Neither is really a good argument for discounted loans from the government.

Like the bank situation, the whole thing is a mess because it's hard to just blame them and allow them to go down in flames and drag the country with it.
JWA is offline  
post #37 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:51 AM
Registered User
 
wallabyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,430
Part of Teslas position comes from their "need" for the money to open their $250,000,000 headquarters. $250mil? Really? I did a plan to get a manufacturing facility for a small European auto manufacturer built here in the US. The number of state subsidies and incentives available were astounding (no fed money or new appropriations were required). And for production of roughly the same number of vehicles, the building cost no where near that. Even with the Model S Sedan, I don't see where all this money is coming from or how it will be made up. Reminds me of the rebirth of Bugatti in the early 90's. Who's doing their accounting?

BTW, I've dealt with Sorinne many times over the years (when I was at HRM). She was always professional. I honestly think that this availability is as a result of either the aforementioned bonus cars or vehicles that became available as a result of canceled orders.
wallabyguy is offline  
post #38 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:52 AM
Registered User
 
fishguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob13572468 View Post
thats obvious.. because most of us arent rich, lonely, middle-aged men... thats pretty much sorienne's M/O
you do know that i was threatened with a lawsuit (by her )for merely reading and repeating what she wrote in threads here on LT.


you are actually (correctly)reading INTO what she about, have your legal team ready sir.

1977 Crossle 32F
1999 Spec Miata
fishguy is offline  
post #39 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
rob13572468's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
There's also the quite real possibility that these cars are still "owned" by the folks who put up the initial deposits, and while they may not be able to close the deal financially, they are trying to sell their position for a little profit.

Buying and selling "delivery positions" on exotic cars isn't terribly uncommon. Coupled with the current times where people who had smallish deposits (i.e., the folks getting delivery now) and would need to come up with big dollars to take possession...this isn't surprising.

Steve
thats certainly fair... I dont know about you guys but if i was going to sell my spot in line i would absolutely do it on ebay, just as was done when the elise first came out... why would anyone want to put an auto salesperson in between and have to pay them as well. Its not like a tesla wouldnt sell itself all day long on ebay... im not buying that thats the story...

secondly, the real 'big' difference between this situation with the deposit holders and other automakers is the way the money was taken. this isnt a lotus situation where the money is held in escrow... all the telsa deposits were non-convertible investments in the company. essentially the deposit holders are really financing the company in many respects which is why this whole deal is so wrong. if ever there was a situation where the guys, people like us who get behind the little automaker, need to *not* get screwed over its this one...


that being said, i have some good intel on *exactly* why tesla did this but im not saying anything just yet until i can get some confirmation...
rob13572468 is offline  
post #40 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
rob13572468's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishguy View Post
you do know that i was threatened with a lawsuit (by her )for merely reading and repeating what she wrote in threads here on LT.


you are actually (correctly)reading INTO what she about, have your legal team ready sir.

I heard something about that... posting opinions based on what you read is not legally actionable. I think thats why its always the threats...
rob13572468 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Electric Avenue- Tesla, ZAP, Dodge EV1, electric Lotus cars

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f176/how-ruin-teslas-image-alienate-customers-65808/
Posted By For Type Date
Tesla resale - Page 4 - Tesla Motors Club Forum This thread Pingback 12-13-2008 10:14 AM
Slashdot - Want a tesla roadster now? No need to wait... This thread Refback 12-13-2008 09:11 AM
Slashdot - Want a tesla roadster now? No need to wait... This thread Refback 12-13-2008 08:13 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome