Interesting post on Tesla design flaw... - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-10-2008, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting post on Tesla design flaw...

I was reading the founders blog and came across this entry from back in october that seemed to go unnoticed...

Apparently the cooling pump for the battery pack runs constantly for unknown reasons. The interesting part is that eberhardt ran some tests and determined that the pump is using 22% of the overall charge capacity for the roadster. There are a number of theories put forth but the prevailing wisdom is that the coolant is kept circulating on the off chance that a cell in the battery pack fails and undergoes thermal runaway. Even more interesting is that tesla provides no explanation whatsoever as to why except to say that the pump running constantly is normal.

Interesting stuff...

the post is here:

Wasting Energy like Two Really Nice Refrigerators Tesla Founders Blog
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 06:40 PM
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Do you have an axe to grind with Tesla? Or are you just a watchful fan?
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent ONE View Post
Do you have an axe to grind with Tesla? Or are you just a watchful fan?
+1

I don't understand the negative obsession with Tesla.


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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 07:36 PM
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I have no idea who rob is, nor have I checked to see if he has a pattern of "bad-mouthing"Tesla.

More important to me is if the writer of the blog or web page has an axe to grind with Tesla.

As someone interested in the technology, it would be interesting to know if this was true.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 07:46 PM
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Guy's probably funded by oil companies.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 07:48 PM
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Guy's probably funded by oil companies.
Yeah, and they faked the Apollo landings too
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 09:03 PM
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Guy's probably funded by oil companies.
The guy is one of the Founders of Telsa and also the former CEO. He started the blog after he was kicked out of the company.

Bio at Martin Eberhard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 09:18 PM
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What - he is a founder of Tesla, but has over 700 post

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-31-2008, 09:20 PM
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*Shrug*
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Agent ONE View Post
Do you have an axe to grind with Tesla? Or are you just a watchful fan?

not... at... all...


I actually *really* like the idea of the tesla in much the same way that I like the idea of the elise and just like I was one of the early elise buyers back in 05 my plans were to get a Tesla roadster when the availability became more normalized...


There is however a big difference between liking/being a fan of a vehicle and being a blind follower. I have no problem in pointing out problems when I see them because someone has to be the devils advocate and ask the difficult questions. Our little forum here, as great as it is has a long history of blind followers, all the way back to the turbocharger debacles 3 years ago when the various turbo guys actually tried to have people believe that they could slap a turbo on their elise and not suffer *any* reliability issues even though we have 50+ years of automotive knowledge that tells us the opposite.


We have plenty of blind followers now with tesla and in fact tesla has people who are paid to come on this forum and cheerlead for them when there are obvious glaring problems. Most of them are with the way the company is run but the roadster has a few issues. Im just pointing them out so that when other people like us come here, they can form an objective opinion.

Interestingly enough, the blog that I referenced in this thread... that guy who is complaining is not just a tesla founder... he invented the tesla roadster...
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rob13572468 View Post
There is however a big difference between liking/being a fan of a vehicle and being a blind follower. I have no problem in pointing out problems when I see them because someone has to be the devils advocate and ask the difficult questions.


...i find nothing malicious whatsoever in rob's candor...likewise, i find the idea of the tesla roadster quite exciting, so the many areas in which its execution has been lacking merit blunt discussion, particularly here where an informed and interested community are on hand to cut through all the hype...

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 11:04 AM
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Thanks for the clarification.

Hard to believe anyone thought the turbo would not over stress the engine.

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 11:18 PM
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There is however a big difference between liking/being a fan of a vehicle and being a blind follower. ...
True.

Thanks for answering the question by the way. I think a few around here were wondering.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 06:44 AM
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The water pump running problem has been fixed. They wrote a firmware fix and all new cars coming out have the update that changes the pump runtime when the car is off. Many current owners have gotten the update by bringing their cars into service centers.

Would be cool if Tesla could send out a jump drive and have owners do the fix themselves or even better if the car could be plugged in and repaired over the phone.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 08:18 AM
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The water pump running problem has been fixed. They wrote a firmware fix and all new cars coming out have the update that changes the pump runtime when the car is off. Many current owners have gotten the update by bringing their cars into service centers.

Would be cool if Tesla could send out a jump drive and have owners do the fix themselves or even better if the car could be plugged in and repaired over the phone.
Say you are Joe Celebrity out there who bought one outside of CA. If you are in NY do they pay to have your car transported back to CA and do the fix, or do they fly one of their mechanics to NY to do your computer fix. How many mechanics are there? Isn't their US "factory" like 2 hoists in the back of a garage? If your car blows a fuse like it did on Top Gear and your brakes fail, again how does it get diagnosed and fixed? Being on your own would be simply unacceptable. And transportation whether it's for the car or for the mechanic would have to certainly start to erode the profits fairly quickly. Ok for one thing if they need to fly one of their mechanics across the country with a piece of computer equipment or a fuse but what happens if he needs tools, or a hoist, or has to diagnose a failed motor, controller, battery, or some other obscure part and replace it? Is he flying back and forth? Does the car go in a semi trailer? Since the cars are produced at such a slow rate are the parts even available if the logistics are worked out? These are things that effect the real world use and sale of a car. Fortunately 1050 of the 1100 cars are probably within a couple hours of the one dealer in CA- but what about that one "had to have it" guy in NY, Hawaii, or wherever?
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 09:46 AM
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Buyer Beware... If you're willing to be "that guy" that's not Tesla's responsibility.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 10:05 AM
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Buyer Beware... If you're willing to be "that guy" that's not Tesla's responsibility.
That's what I thought. Just figured I'd pose the questions though.
So "that guy" if his car blows a fuse and his brakes don't work- and he doesn't know what the problem is- he just knows it's broke- has to put it on a truck and ship it 2000 miles to CA. And then back (because unless you have about a month you can't fly out and drive it back). At that point- you really aren't saving the planet anymore.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 11:15 AM
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Similiar to owning a Lotus, not to many dealerships around. Although a much better coverage than Tesla.

This is pretty easy, if you dont want one, don't buy one

Need a new Lotus this winter
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-02-2009, 11:24 AM
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Similiar to owning a Lotus, not to many dealerships around. Although a much better coverage than Tesla.

This is pretty easy, if you dont want one, don't buy one
I have a Lotus dealer a half hour from me. I don't know how many are in the country, but I know there are quite a few scattered about and one within a reasonable distance of most major cities and quite a few countries.

Some people DO want one though. And don't want to have to flatbed it across the country every time it has an issue. Heck some people just want to get the one they paid for a couple years ago. They probably thought by now they'd have their car (since when they first started selling them they said first year production was going to be 800 cars which turned out closer to 80) and some of those people probably thought they might develop a dealer network so they could get their car serviced they paid $100K+ for without an additional couple/few thousand dollars in transportation fees. (on the bag of carbon spewing non world saving truck)

Heck I'D want one, if it was affordable, had a useable range under fun driving conditions so I could take it to the mountains, and could get it fixed if it broke.

Have you ever got a first model year car from a car company that makes cars? One that has made cars for a hundred years? Now what about one from some Silicon Valley computer nerds who take pride in that they aren't a car company (they "are a startup") and have never made a car?

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rob13572468 View Post
I was reading the founders blog and came across this entry from back in october that seemed to go unnoticed...

Apparently the cooling pump for the battery pack runs constantly for unknown reasons. The interesting part is that eberhardt ran some tests and determined that the pump is using 22% of the overall charge capacity for the roadster. There are a number of theories put forth but the prevailing wisdom is that the coolant is kept circulating on the off chance that a cell in the battery pack fails and undergoes thermal runaway. Even more interesting is that tesla provides no explanation whatsoever as to why except to say that the pump running constantly is normal.

Interesting stuff...

the post is here:

Wasting Energy like Two Really Nice Refrigerators Tesla Founders Blog
Interesting. I live 2 miles away from the Menlo Park dealership and sell Lotus through Boardwalk Lotus in Redwood City. When I visited a month ago, the showroom demo had the small fan cooling on. I have a good relationship with the Sales Manager and we have fun comparing the cars.

The building is an old Chevrolet dealership and has multiple bays in the back to ealily accomidate the PDI of the new cars. There were 5 in the bays awaiting service and delivery. Very modern showroom and reflecting the high tech and clean image.
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