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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Tesla Drama

Tesla Co-Founder Sues CEO Elon Musk For Slander And Breach Of Contract

I really hope they make it, as we need a car like this on the market, but with so much internal turmoil, on top of all the other headlines only time will tell...

"Tesla co-founder Martin Eberhard is suing CEO Elon Musk, citing allegations of slander, libel and breach of contract. Eberhard’s lawsuit, which is 22-pages long, was filed on May 26 in San Mateo County, Calif. Superior Court and seeks unspecified damages.

The suit surrounds Musk’s treatment of Eberhard as well as the CEO’s handling of Tesla, alleging that Musk “compromised Tesla Motors’ financial health.” Eberhard says that Musk began a smear campaign against Eberhard on media outlets, attaching pages of news articles where Musk made negative comments about Eberhard. Eberhard says Musk essentially pushed him out of the company that he founded and consequently took full credit for developing the first electric car the company produced, the Roadster.

Eberhard also claims that Musk not only falsely said that he was the founder of the company, but has also misrepresented his past roles, including the extent of his involvement with the company he founded, PayPal. The suit also says that Tesla didn’t pay him severance or issue stock options, which was part of his contract upon his separation from the company in November of 2007. Some of the accusations border on hilarity, with Eberhard accusing Tesla of destroying his customized Roadster before the car was given to him.

The lawsuit is embedded below.According to Wired’s report, Tesla calls the suit a “fictionalized account of Tesla’s early years.” Tesla has also said that they plan to counter sure Eberhard. While some of the suit seems like sour grapes, the breach of contract accusations take on a more serious tone. It’s unclear how much Eberhard is seeking in damages.

Daimler recently took a 10% (or $50 million) stake in Tesla, putting the company’s valuation at $500 million."
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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 12:58 PM
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Tesla will continue to have issues like these as long as Elon and his personality issues are at the helm.
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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 03:17 PM
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The more I hear about Tesla, the more they seem to be the Jerry Springer of the Auto Industry.


Of course, you know, that means Toyota is Oprah.
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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 04:03 PM
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Thumbs down

I recall reading in one of your posts right after you left this company a few months back about your stating that you had an agreement to "silence" when you left this company.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/1233621-post11.html

doesnt your being the one to start this thread breach that agreement in spirit?

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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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I recall reading in one of your posts right after you left this company a few months back about your stating that you had an agreement to "silence" when you left this company.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/1233621-post11.html

doesnt your being the one to start this thread breach that agreement in spirit?
Not quite. This is public information. Nice try fishy guy.
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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 05:37 PM
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Fish, somebody in isle 5 wants to argue about 4 point harnesses, you better hurry

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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 11:37 AM
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I really hope they make it, as we need a car like this on the market, but with so much internal turmoil, on top of all the other headlines only time will tell...
Why do we need a car like this on the market? It's an impractical electric elise that costs a small fortune for what it is. People get it as a symbol, not for any kind of efficiency (you would never recoup what you spent on the car in gas savings, even if you were comparing it to a H1 Hummer).

Secondly if the motivation is to "lower the carbon footprint of mankind" or other such rubbish in an effort to combat [manmade] "global warming" - then do some research.

I for one could care less if Tesla tanks. I think it's an ugly bastardization of an existing car that got too much credit where little was due. There are other all-electric cars out there with more innovation and refinement that also cost less.



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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 11:47 AM
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Why do we need a car like this on the market? It's an impractical electric elise that costs a small fortune for what it is. People get it as a symbol, not for any kind of efficiency (you would never recoup what you spent on the car in gas savings, even if you were comparing it to a H1 Hummer).

Secondly if the motivation is to "lower the carbon footprint of mankind" or other such rubbish in an effort to combat [manmade] "global warming" - then do some research.

I for one could care less if Tesla tanks. I think it's an ugly bastardization of an existing car that got too much credit where little was due. There are other all-electric cars out there with more innovation and refinement that also cost less.

+1

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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 12:19 PM
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I think she's referring to the Model S, not the Roadster.
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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MyFutureSelfnMe View Post
I think she's referring to the Model S, not the Roadster.
I sure hope so...


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post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 01:15 PM
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I sure hope so...
Then do you wish to revise your statement?
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post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 02:08 PM
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I for one could care less if Tesla tanks.
...so you're saying that you care somewhat about tesla...

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post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Having had several hours/days of seat time in electric cars I can definitely vouch for the thrill of having instant torque. It is nice to be off the grid, but I do agree with you otherwise. It's called the dust to dust theory. Here's a great article about it. CNW Dust to Dust study on the cost of different vehicles | The Arlington Institute Apparently my Range Rover was better for the environment than a Tesla or Prius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesterbot View Post
Why do we need a car like this on the market? It's an impractical electric elise that costs a small fortune for what it is. People get it as a symbol, not for any kind of efficiency (you would never recoup what you spent on the car in gas savings, even if you were comparing it to a H1 Hummer).

Secondly if the motivation is to "lower the carbon footprint of mankind" or other such rubbish in an effort to combat [manmade] "global warming" - then do some research.

I for one could care less if Tesla tanks. I think it's an ugly bastardization of an existing car that got too much credit where little was due. There are other all-electric cars out there with more innovation and refinement that also cost less.

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post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-12-2009, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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I think she's referring to the Model S, not the Roadster.
Actually the Model S worries me. I hope they can deliver all their promises. Some early adapter are selling their Roadsters already because they didn't follow through.

Here's some feedback I got about one for sale. He owned it for at least 6 months prior to selling.

"It was no one thing that swayed me. Basically there were a handful of little disappointments, some of which I could have anticipated, and some of which I couldn't. When I added it all up, I was enjoying the car, but I think it's going to depreciate a lot in the next six months -- if I saw it as a 5-10 year keeper, then it would make sense to hold it. But I was pretty sure within a year or two I would want something else, and I felt like now I could still get back all I put into it, and if I waited even 3-6 months that wouldn't be true. So I decided to sell it.

My main complaint is that it promised supercar performance but it doesn't deliver. In a very narrow category -- 20-60 mph acceleration, say, it's probably equivalent to a F430 or Gallardo. But in virtually every other category it is slightly to woefully short. I think in a best case it delivers bone-stock 997 equivalent performance, though it may be more accurate to say Boxster S equivalent.

Now, a 997 or Boxster S are great performance cars, so it's not to say it's not fun to drive -- it is. But it ain't a F430 either. And when they said Supercar performance, that's what I had in mind. And I think current owners are in a bit of denial -- when you email with them about this, they say "what do I care about 1 or 2 tenths" (in 0-60) -- but it's not one or two... it's ten or 11 tenths.

Other niggles: the interior sucks, it's so so small, ingress/egress, crap stereo, no interior storage, firmware bugs.

If you're really into owning the first great electric car, then it's an awesome keeper. But if you're looking for a performance car, you can get a ton more for your money. I probably wouldn't get it but take a Nissan GTR for example. Or a 1-2 year old 997 Turbo. Both would smoke the tesla and be 10x more comfortable doing it.

BTW the coolest thing about the tesla is the quiet performance... you can ride it hard around the city and because it's silent, no one gives you the stink eye!"
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post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 06:38 AM
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That's a pretty interesting quote. But I wonder if that guy took the time to test drive an Elise before placing his order for a Roadster. Several of his points apply to both cars, and although I haven't driven a Roadster, I never pictured it as a straight line acceleration monster. I'd be more interested in taking it to the canyons. Tesla is billing this as a "supercar" and stating supercar-level 0-60 acceleration times. This is a car that's so different from what's on the market already that I would expect it to greatly exceed most cars in some categories and greatly fall short in some others. So I can't blame Tesla for quoting the stats that fall into the former category and make this look like the second coming of the automobile.

He bought a 1.0 product from a small company. Considering that, he's lucky he got what he did.

I'm a little scared of the Model S too. I believe Tesla will build a car that will fulfill almost all of their stated stats - if the company makes it that far. Their business plan seems like Swiss cheese to me at the moment. Elon is making them look unprofessional to potential investors. The car is going to fall short in ways that haven't been revealed yet - possibly even to the engineers working on it. It's another 1.0 product in a lot of ways. I could easily put down a $5,000 (or $40,000) deposit and lose it if the company tanks. But this is not territory for everyone.
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post #16 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 07:26 AM
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according to Ray Kurzweil (Ray Kurzweil: A university for the coming singularity | Video on TED.com) we are only 16 years away from total energy needs being met from Solar Energy production.
'' ...there has been a smooth doubling of solar energy production every 2 years for the last 20 years and there only needs to be another 8 doublings for total energy demand to be satisfied...''
The 8 minute talk in the above link is very convincing (the solar energy prediction is at 5.40 onwards).
he also states elsewhere that the performance of batteries has been doubling exponentially and the costs have been falling according to a linear and predictable model... batteries will soon be half the weight, have twice the storage capacity and cost half as much (in 18 months time according to the prediction models).
So... according to that logic Tesla will most likely survive and prosper - and prob. be bought-out entirely by Daimler?
A lot of people here have been criticizing Tesla/Musk and predicting it's demise - but it's still here, making and selling cars and fighting back... it has it's 2012 models all lined up (all but one of those models is lotus developed).
Tesla seems to me to be right on the money, and one day people will look back and honor their vision - I will and do.

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post #17 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 08:52 AM
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A bit off topic but I think I'm going to get a test drive in the new Tesla sedan on Tuesday. If so I'll post pics.

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post #18 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 11:44 AM
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So... according to that logic Tesla will most likely survive and prosper - and prob. be bought-out entirely by Daimler?
A lot of people here have been criticizing Tesla/Musk and predicting it's demise - but it's still here, making and selling cars and fighting back... it has it's 2012 models all lined up (all but one of those models is lotus developed).
Tesla seems to me to be right on the money, and one day people will look back and honor their vision - I will and do.
that would be so if tesla was the only game in town... As the market for electric vehicles begins to develop it becomes easier for everyone.. Tesla isnt better than everyone, they were just first, and that lead is diminishing.
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post #19 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 01:10 PM
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that would be so if tesla was the only game in town... As the market for electric vehicles begins to develop it becomes easier for everyone.. Tesla isnt better than everyone, they were just first, and that lead is diminishing.
Tesla seem to be holding a pretty good hand, the tie up with Lotus and access to the finest chassis combinations available anywhere (VVA/APX for their Model S/ and the Evora platform for their 2012 911 turbo competitor. https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f176...c-evora-74454/
The Mercedes link for the Smart EV looks really promising too.
There probably are other players but where are they?
Tesla seem to have a viable and conservative business model which will see them graduate from speciality niche products to eventual mass production - the major stumbling block to their progress appears to be cash flow closely followed by battery technology and according to some of the scientific articles I've been reading we are very close to several battery tech. breakthroughs.
The case for federal financial support of a strategic emerging industry is compelling too - throw money away with GM or invest in a bright future with Tesla? I personally think it would be unforgivable for the Federal Gov to let Tesla sink while propping up any part of GM.
my $.02
Apologies if this is wandering off the thread topic, divorces and lawsuits between business partners are ugly, I hope they sort it out without damaging Tesla. Tesla is bigger than any of the personalities involved. It would be a tragedy if this caused Tesla damage.

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post #20 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-13-2009, 05:10 PM
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#1 producer of enviromental pollution is NOT cars, we (as humans) have our priorities misplaced putting so much focus on that and virtually ignoring buildings. not to say development of electrical drivetrains in cars is bad... just woefully missing the forest for the tree.

i could also really care less about Tesla - even the name is a silly hijack. i guess its kinda 'cool' but not real car. so much more interested in the Fisker. or for that matter the didge ev europa is more compelling to me than the boutique tesla.

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