Tesla Model S - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 3,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
fisker and tesla have completely different business models...

tesla does plan to build their cars from scratch, in their own factory. (old ford plant in detroit)

fisker is not building anything other than IP and managing the design and engineering. it will be built by Valmet. Fisker owns no production or factory.
Tesla is building their cars in Fremont on the old GM and Toyota plant

Phantom Black 2007 Exige Kold Fire, Tesla double din dash.
Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver
IamBatman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by glb View Post
Do you stay only at home on weekends?

Seriously, picture this typical scenario:

My girl and I are visiting the next state over (NYS in my case). We've gone about 1/2 of capacity.

She says, "Oh, there's a great museum/shop/restaurant, that I'd love to visit while we're in the area. It's only an hour away."

Me "Sure, let's go!"

You: "Oh, wait, I need to rent a car...."


Now, if batteries become interchangeable, with maybe 1-3 sizes, and could be swapped out in 10 or so minutes, that makes all electric more feasible for a large part of the population.

That, tho, is not on the near horizon.


As commuter cars only, electrics have got to come down in price, which they will, to make financial sense. Those are very limited-use vehicles.

If your electricity is generated by coal, you're not helping with pollution as much as you (might) think. There are now charts showing the affects of this.

I would advise anyone interested in high mileage, low pollution, to get a Prius. We now know how well they hold up over 10 yrs and 100k miles, i.e. as good as new.


Please note, i'm not trying to convince you - or anyone - to agree with me.

Early adopters are great....for the rest of us. More power to you. oh, sorry...
You're coming off as somewhat defensive here, so I apologize if I've come across as aggressive or something, certainly wasn't my intention. I was merely pointing out, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that the original point of travel time being a huge factor in such a purchase decision was not a big one IMHO.

Myself, no I don't own an electric or a hybrid and i'm generally not the type to adopt new technology at version 1.0. But I think in time it will be the right tool for many people. I also don't agree so much with the "it's too expensive" hype... this is a country populated with expensive SUV's, Hummers and Trucks after all and it is not clear to me that the majority of people who drive them actually need that capability. But that's just my personal opinion, it's not for me to judge!

On a more humorous note, i'd ditch the girl, fly to the next state over, rent a sports car, and get a fling girl for the weekend
Joe Kerr is offline  
post #23 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by smicker View Post
FFS, anyone can come up with an argument against anything.

ANYTHING.

I can bitch about not being able to drive to Hawaii. What? I have to buy a ticket on an AIRPLANE? This car is WORTHLESS.

The fact is: a 150 mile per day range is more than enough for the vast majority of people and their travel habits. It simply makes no sense to reject something because it's ONLY 90% perfect.
+1
Joe Kerr is offline  
 
post #24 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 05:03 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Kerr View Post
You're coming off as somewhat defensive here, so I apologize if I've come across as aggressive or something, certainly wasn't my intention. I was merely pointing out, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that the original point of travel time being a huge factor in such a purchase decision was not a big one IMHO.

Myself, no I don't own an electric or a hybrid and i'm generally not the type to adopt new technology at version 1.0. But I think in time it will be the right tool for many people. I also don't agree so much with the "it's too expensive" hype... this is a country populated with expensive SUV's, Hummers and Trucks after all and it is not clear to me that the majority of people who drive them actually need that capability. But that's just my personal opinion, it's not for me to judge!

On a more humorous note, i'd ditch the girl, fly to the next state over, rent a sports car, and get a fling girl for the weekend
No, you're 100% fine.

Not defensive here, just annoyed at the unearned hoopla surrounding electrics. Just as I was about ethanol.

Yes, I'm a late adopter as well. The cutting edge is where the blood is shed.

Expense: As a commuter only car, the price must come down to justify the investment. With the more expensive electrics...well, that's where the concept leaves me. "Nice car!" "Wanna go for a 2.75 hr ride?"

Volt and Prius are better all-around solutions. Prius debuting plug-in soon.

One reason I love cars, and sports cars specifically, is the freedom we get. Most of that vanishes in these applications.

SUVs: Don't get me started. for most, they are blights on the landscape. Minivans are way better, unless towing or going off road, which is about what 5% of owners do. NJ is awash in tiny women driving giant trucks.

I posted a lot of anti-suv stuff here yrs ago. It amused me, but not everyone.

I am more than willing to be judgmental.

I got the first Prius on the E coast and that is a wonderful car for most ppl...like my wife. Too dull and slow for me.

CR tested a 10 yr old Prius with > 100k miles and it ran as new. I think it's the most reliable car in US; astonishing given the thousand of patents on the last two models.

PS: There are two mfgrs who produce cars that are generally safe to buy in 1st model year. As you might guess: Toyota and Honda, which do more real-world testing than most mfgrs.

(I've always wanted a 2CV to go downtown with....)

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is offline  
post #25 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 10:55 PM
Registered User
 
karlInSanDiego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fallbrook, CA
Posts: 170
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
fisker and tesla have completely different business models...

tesla does plan to build their cars from scratch, in their own factory. (old ford plant in detroit)

fisker is not building anything other than IP and managing the design and engineering. it will be built by Valmet. Fisker owns no production or factory.
Fisker bought a plant from GM, with public Green incentives in 2010.

Fisker Hiring At Repurposed Delaware Auto Plant - AutoObserver

Mechanical sympathy makes us better mechanics and better owners. Ducati dry clutches .... I just don't get it.
karlInSanDiego is offline  
post #26 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 07:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 32
Just wanna mention, there are batteries in the works RIGHT NOW with ten times the efficiency of today's batteries, that would mean that the tesla model s, which currently has a 500km limit could go 5000km...long enough for you? There are also roads being developed that can charge an electric car when it drives over it, so you can pull into a parking lot and it will charge your car XD
MoritzR1 is offline  
post #27 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 04:39 AM
Registered User
 
MikeinAlexandria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,028
Teslas can be topped off usng 220v commercial charge stations, and soon, 440v stations. In the time it takes to stretch ones legs, buy a sandwich, and eat it, you'll be able to charge up the Tesla and gain another 200-300 miles of range. It remains to be seen though if electric cars take off in the US. right now, in the world of driving between cities and suburbs in our 4000+ pound cars and trucks, there is no compelling reason to go electric. Now, if the US government decides to bump the gasoline tax up, raising prices to say $7/gallon, leaving clean diesel alone, then there might be a good reason to switch. So far, our government has used taxes as a means of changing drive habits. We do however, cheerfully use taxes to redistribute wealth and discourage savings... Sadly...

2013 Porsche Boxster (in silver and red, home at last!)
2011 BMW 128i cabrio, ///M Sport
2005 Elise in Racing Green with the touring pack (sold 8/6/12)
2007 MINI Cooper S in Sparkling Silver (sold)
Founder of the Racing Green Confederate
MikeinAlexandria is offline  
post #28 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 11:24 PM
Registered User
 
gray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,468
I went for a test drive in a Model S Performance today (we're in line to purchase one). We really could care less about the ZOMG IT WILL COST MONEY! arguments - we're buying because it's different from everything else out there. The Prius Plug-in sucks (and I have a Prius).

It was raining, and we were accompanied by a (very cute female) Tesla rep. I tested the traction control on the (straight, empty) onramp of the highway (quite clear of other cars) by simply flooring the accelerator while going in a straight line. The car reacts very aggressively - you can feel the car braking wheels individually - I personally feel like the car is upsetting itself to compensate for the rear wheels slipping. I'm kind of hoping they dial it down a bit by the time we take delivery as I can see my parents panicking while accelerating to highway speed.

This will be the first American car we have bought in over 15 years.

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Leave Out The Unnecessary Stuff
gray is offline  
post #29 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 01:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,312
Gray, Where did you test drive the car?

2006 Aspen White Elise. LSS, LSD, Traction control, LS Toe Link Brace, LS Ohlins DA, Rota 15/16's, BOE surge tanks and Sector 111 Gpan2, Red leather, JL speakers all around with Acapulco MP54, CF dash top, gas shock opening rear deck, multi-vex mirros and replaced rear-view mirror with kit off this forum.
ewalberg is offline  
post #30 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 04:53 PM
Ticket Magnet
 
R4Racin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Home, Sweet Home
Posts: 1,055
So MikeinAlexandria is right - only the Type 4 chargers are NOW (Green Highway) and can charge your car to 85-90% full in 15-20 minutes. Although not implemented yet, on board programming in the GPS allows for you to reserve a charging station at the appropriate interval time taking into account distance from the station and expected travel time. This allows you to reserve the station for your use when you arrive and no lines meaning that you can probably beat others who have to wait in line for gas.
And without going too far intop tomorrow, change the elctrolyte, not the entire battery. This means that you are nor dependant on huge investments in battery sizes that are tailored to specific location sizes throughout the car. I know Ni-Cad, Li-ion does not have fluid, but battery technology is coming.
I was told that when the first Tesla cars were produced, they opted to not go with fast chrger technology so Tesla owners could not use the Type 4 fast-chargers.
And while inductive charging is seen as working for buses or cars parked all day, it is not seen as viable until (forever, basically) charging technology and a lot of other technologies change. There are three? test fleets in the U.S. now using this technology - Utah State University and two others.
R4Racin is offline  
post #31 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-18-2012, 12:49 PM
ERP
Registered User
 
ERP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by gray View Post
I went for a test drive in a Model S Performance today (we're in line to purchase one).
Any other first impresions on the drive? I got to sit in one last week at the Denver dealership. I was impressed by the interior. I've been running the numbers and I am temped to get on the waiting list for the S. The batter range will be even better at altitude with the lower air density. It will be a great Front Range car.

2006 Chrome Orange Elise - 6.3 lbs/hp - MP-62 Supercharger, 3.2" Pulley, BOE Fast-Works Tune, Ported Head, MWR Stage 3 Cams, Penske Suspension, Cup Air Box, PPE Header with Catless Custom Twin Tip Exhaust, Fidanza Flywheel, ACT Clutch, MWR Water Pump + Alternator Pulley, 1900 lbs
Saab Turbo X, 415hp, 532 tq
Tesla S P85D - Wife's daily driver
ERP is offline  
post #32 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 12:51 AM
Registered User
 
gray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewalberg View Post
Gray, Where did you test drive the car?
I drove a brown P85 at one of the dealerships in the Chicagoland suburbs. I was able drive onto I-94 for a short time in the rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERP View Post
Any other first impresions on the drive? I got to sit in one last week at the Denver dealership. I was impressed by the interior. I've been running the numbers and I am temped to get on the waiting list for the S. The batter range will be even better at altitude with the lower air density. It will be a great Front Range car.
Let me start by saying that I'm not a big-soft-couch-luxury-car kind of guy. I'm used to spartan interiors, purely functional controls, a harsh ride, and little sound deadening. A Honda Accord EX is the most "soft" car I drive regularly.

That said - this car is smooth. The ride is the smoothest of any car I've even been in (this includes an old Buick that a family friend used to own). Needless to say, at 55mph, the car was as soft as my Evo IX standing still (with the engine off). Those of us who have driven a hybrid are familiar with the feeling of "regen" deceleration. It's like decelerating on an automatic transmission by taking your foot off the gas - only in the case of the Model S, it's very very apparent. It's more like letting off the gas at 4000rpm in the Elise. As for the power delivery: the engine/drive/whatever response is instantaneous. This is a word that I think automotive writers have been abusing for a long time to mean "very fast." When I say it, it's because you push the pedal and the electric drive wants to GO. Right. Now. The power delivery is like being on boost - the car pushes you into the back of your seat. It's not quite as brutal as the way the Evo accelerates while on full boost, but I can imagine that it's something you'd do after telling your passengers "check this out!" The steering is nice and direct - the car was set to "sport" most of the time I drove it (as this was the performance model). The rep was demonstrating the variable steering response and turned it to "comfort" while we were doing 5mph in the mall parking lot - my response was "please don't turn it to anything but sport." I didn't get to try the variable height suspension - that option was apparently locked out for the demo models. I was amused by the fact that my mother asked "why wouldn't you always leave it at the lowest setting?" Given that I had already freaked out the rep (only a little), I didn't want to test the handling prowess of the car in the rain on the highway offramp. A couple of small irritations - the stalks on the steering wheel are not where I expect them. The right side stalk is much lower than the location on a lot of modern cars (at least those I have driven in my limited experience). Also, I wish a lot more of the controls had actual tactile buttons so I wouldn't constantly be taking my eyes off the road to make adjustments (I'm just the type of person to be messing with the HVAC while I'm driving as opposed to set-it-and-forget-it). As good as the touch screen interface may be - it won't beat buttons and knobs I can feel without looking while driving on the highway.

I personally don't like the aggressiveness of the traction control/stability control - I honestly don't think a car moving in a straight line, when starting to lose grip should react as violently as I experienced. Unfortunately, it seems that the user community at Tesla Motors Club overlaps with the Apple demographic where the response to "I don't like the way the car seems to be unsettling itself" is "It's your fault! You're doing it wrong!" I'm a little disappointed by the idea that a 4500lb luxury sedan is something that I have to approach like the Lotus - driving it with the understanding that the car is trying to get me killed (e.g snap oversteer). I highly recommend going for a test drive in the snow or rain if you can and give the traction and stability control a try for yourself.

After quite a bit of discussion, we decided we wanted a "lowly" 40kwh model. It won't run M5s, it won't go 300 miles on a single charge, and it won't supercharge - but honestly, we don't need any of that. We need a reliable car that will do 80 miles per day that is reasonably well built, and will fit our two dogs. I honestly believe that there is sufficient R&D going into battery research that 8 years from now when the car is due for a battery replacement, we will be upgrading battery capacity anyway. Even if the battery technology completely stagnates where it is now, we don't really need more than what the car is spec'ed for. From an engineering perspective, we need the car to cover the 90% case, not the 190% case where we can envision trying to beat Alex Roy and going 1000 miles in a day and needing the car to charge in 30 seconds. Yes, we could get a Nissan Leaf, but honestly the Tesla is not that much more expensive, and the Model S is clearly a better car.

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Leave Out The Unnecessary Stuff

Last edited by gray; 12-24-2012 at 01:33 AM.
gray is offline  
post #33 of 72 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 05:41 AM
Registered User
 
XHILR8N!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 2 laps down
Posts: 6,823
Garage
I saw one here in NC, plugged into our chic free electric charge stations next to a Leaf. Pretty impressive, but was at night. I was just totally surprised to see it.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
2011 Evora S Racing Heritage Edition (#3 of 4) (Now with alexsharkeyross)
2005 Elise LRG, track prepped ,
1974 Lotus Europa Special 3841R in JPS livery
2007 Toyota Tundra (about 10 cup holders), traded for 2015 Tundra TRD PRO
2007 Audi S4 DTM (RIP) 1980 Rover SD1 (new home) 2015 Honda Civic Si
2016 370Z Nismo
2013 Bentley Continental GT Speed 2019 Lexus LC500
XHILR8N! is offline  
post #34 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-08-2013, 01:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,312
The Model S is starting to get pretty common, (perhaps more common than the Roadster) here in the San Francisco area...

2006 Aspen White Elise. LSS, LSD, Traction control, LS Toe Link Brace, LS Ohlins DA, Rota 15/16's, BOE surge tanks and Sector 111 Gpan2, Red leather, JL speakers all around with Acapulco MP54, CF dash top, gas shock opening rear deck, multi-vex mirros and replaced rear-view mirror with kit off this forum.
ewalberg is offline  
post #35 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-08-2013, 02:32 PM
Registered User
 
Butters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,623
I've seen a couple around here in Seattle. Both during the day and at night. They looks so pretty at night all lit up. Was next to one at a stop light and the owner looked over and we gave each other a thumbs up. Respect.

Thinking of K-swapping? Here's an idea of the cost involved.

2006 LOTUS EXIGE (ASPEN WHITE) Honda K24A2 + MPx90 supercharger. 322whp/271lb-ft @13psi. Build thread here.
1994 AUTOZAM AZ-1 MAZDASPEED Japanese Super Kei!
2014 FIAT 500e Hydroelectric powered EV daily driver.
2007 SUZUKI SV650 Track bike.
Butters is offline  
post #36 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-08-2013, 05:35 PM
Registered User
 
Flying Scotsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mooresville NC USA
Posts: 342
S series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBatman View Post
Tesla is building their cars in Fremont on the old GM and Toyota plant
Batman is right. They are building the cars right now in Fremont CA at the old GM Toyota facility NUMI.

They have just won car of the year with it.
They have signed a deal with Mercedes to provide electric drive train and battery technology to them.
They have a version that will spank the new BMW M5 0-100 mph
They have spent tons of money on high tech "state of the art" assembly and build technology. Ask me how I know.

We supplied it to them and it's exactly the same technology as now used by Audi (R8, A4,5 and 6, S4 and A1) Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Lamborghini, GM (new corvette C7), the new Acura NSX, Ford, Mercedes, Volkswagen, etc etc.

Lots of Tickets Usually Speeding
Flying Scotsman is offline  
post #37 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 09:32 AM
Registered User
 
gray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman View Post
They have spent tons of money on high tech "state of the art" assembly and build technology. Ask me how I know.

We supplied it to them and it's exactly the same technology as now used by Audi (R8, A4,5 and 6, S4 and A1) Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Lamborghini, GM (new corvette C7), the new Acura NSX, Ford, Mercedes, Volkswagen, etc etc.
I'm assuming they need this state-of-the-art assembly technology to decrease their per-unit costs as I'm guessing they make a small profit on each signature and P85 they produce, but the build costs are still high enough that the 45kwh version is not profitable to build.

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Leave Out The Unnecessary Stuff
gray is offline  
post #38 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 09:37 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 8,534
I've actually been seeing a white S near me. Assuming the person lives in the area. If the woman I saw in Panera was the owner, she's milfilicious!
SwingLo is offline  
post #39 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 01:39 PM
Registered User
 
ishur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 712
I wonder how much of a range hit they will take when the temperature in Chicago goes down close to zero?

I've driven the old Tesla roadster, and these pure electrics definitely have a LETS GO RIGHT NOW feel when you punch the accelerator, accentuated by the eerie lack of noise. I've also seen the sedan, and heard Elon Musk speak at a function in Chicago. Impressive guy, in a socially awkward kind of way--clearly very bright. He talked more about SpaceX than Tesla. Very interesting stuff. I hope the car succeeds.
ishur is online now  
post #40 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Registered User
 
gray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ishur View Post
I wonder how much of a range hit they will take when the temperature in Chicago goes down close to zero?

I've driven the old Tesla roadster, and these pure electrics definitely have a LETS GO RIGHT NOW feel when you punch the accelerator, accentuated by the eerie lack of noise. I've also seen the sedan, and heard Elon Musk speak at a function in Chicago. Impressive guy, in a socially awkward kind of way--clearly very bright. He talked more about SpaceX than Tesla. Very interesting stuff. I hope the car succeeds.
Large Drop in Charge When Parked in the Cold

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Leave Out The Unnecessary Stuff
gray is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Electric Avenue- Tesla, ZAP, Dodge EV1, electric Lotus cars

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome