...the Tesla roadster: what a wallowing pig of a car!.. - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 08:57 AM
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The Elise S has good torque and midrange (less upper end hp) but it is quite good for getting off the line. I drove an S at Nurburgring.

The Tesla is a street roadster, not a track car. I think that is all it means. Many sportscars come very softly sprung once tried on a track. My Noble being one.

There are plenty of high-powered "street roadsters"/GTs that eat supercharged Elises for lunch on tracks... I just don't see it being a GT as a good enough excuse.

Ah well..

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post #22 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 08:57 AM
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Richard,

Do you happen to recall what wheel/tire combo was on the Elise? Was it the AD07 or A048s? I can't make out the wheels on the Elise as they're black.

As a side note, it appears Clarkson's comments about the tires on the Tesla were likely incorrect as they come with AD07s, not tires 'optimized for rolling resistance.'

The UK Elise S carries the AD07's

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post #23 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 08:59 AM
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I was a little but surprised at how harsh Clarkson was. Fifth Gear seemed to really like it, then again top gear is more of an entertainment show. Take the fact that they estimated 55miles for a range. Yeah, and that was him foot to the floor all the time, of course it was gonna be low, its like running a laptop on battery with the screen as bright as it goes, WIFI and blue tooth on, and several CPU intensive programs running. Also the comment on charging, if i'm not mistaken you are supposed to recharge on a higher voltage line, like the one your drier runs on, which tesla claims give a full charge in 3.5 hours. Top Gear had the 120V charger, so of course it will take a longer time. I'm not arguing with the epic body roll, and the fact that it wasn't amazingly quick, but you do have to take top gear with a grain of salt.
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post #24 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 09:21 AM
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I was a little but surprised at how harsh Clarkson was. Fifth Gear seemed to really like it, then again top gear is more of an entertainment show. Take the fact that they estimated 55miles for a range. Yeah, and that was him foot to the floor all the time, of course it was gonna be low, its like running a laptop on battery with the screen as bright as it goes, WIFI and blue tooth on, and several CPU intensive programs running. Also the comment on charging, if i'm not mistaken you are supposed to recharge on a higher voltage line, like the one your drier runs on, which tesla claims give a full charge in 3.5 hours. Top Gear had the 120V charger, so of course it will take a longer time. I'm not arguing with the epic body roll, and the fact that it wasn't amazingly quick, but you do have to take top gear with a grain of salt.
Well one of the major selling points of the car is that it is this cool and amazingly quick sports car. You never see a blurb on it without the 0-60 time being mentioned. It would not get the press it does if it looked funny like most other electric or eco cars. It is supposed to be amazingly quick well because they always tell us how amazingly quick it is. But then to say... well that really isn't the way it's meant to be driven, it goes 55 miles if you drive it like how we sell it to you, if it gets that far without overheating....
Well that wouldn't be the type of hype that generates 2 year waiting lists.

I think this is the first time the car has been subjected to an independent review, not closely controlled by the company. It is Top Gear. You better have you crap together if you submit to them because they are going to call it like they see it. Even Lotus gets a knock here and there from them. Pretty much any car does not get 100% praise the whole show. The even ripped on the Maseratti MC12 a fair amount. The show started off with them speaking extremely favorable about it, so they did get some good press out of it, just not a great conclusion since 2 out of 2 cars didn't really go the distance in their kind of review. (failed brakes, overheated, and not enough range when driven hard) They aren't the only car that has ever left the show without a raving review.
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post #25 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 09:42 AM
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SweetDaddyD, i completely agree with you, however Top Gear is an entertainment show, and they do state things that aren't always true. That was my point with the charging. Yes it will take that long to charge on a 120V line, yes it is a long time, however they didn't mention the option for the faster charging at home. Top Gear is not the be all end all final say for cars. Yes they will call it like they see it, however occasionally they are misinformed, and pass that misinformation along, you just have to keep that in mind. I'm not trying to blindly defend the Tesla, just point out somethings i noticed that i didn't think the show got quite right.

You said this was the first independent review, i thought Fifth Gear was independent as well? Please correct me if i'm wrong there. Fifth Gear drove it in a hill climb event, and they seemed to like it, and it didn't exhibit the same body roll and brake issues, however the hill climb is different than Clarkson thrashing a car around the track.
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post #26 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 09:47 AM
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That's my point exactly. If an Elise S beat the Tesla that badly, it's very pitiful for the Tesla.
I am not sure what you are all on about, it did a 1:27.2 (same as a Porsche GT3) on a damp circuit and the Exige did 1:26.9 in the dry

Why is everything a race for you people? The lap time is irrelevant, the car is designed to be a sporty touring car, not a hard core track machine.

If the lap time is so important to you, perhaps you should have bought a Caterham (or better yet the Gumpert) instead of that POS Lotus



Top Gear is not the be all and end all, it is an entertainment show and is not beyond skewing the results to fit their story ( I know for fact that they have done it in the past), for example, I wouldn't be surprised if they faked having the batteries go dead to make it more interesting.

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"the car is not meant for the track", WTF does that mean for a sportscar?

Is it really that hard for you to understand that some sports cars are not set up to be track demons?
It's a street sports car that is more to show up to at the clubs and take a nice drive down a country road than to do hot laps around a track in


Edit: Cegan09 beat me to it

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post #27 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 09:49 AM
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^ Agreed.
Didn't see the fifth gear show (top gear is the only car show I download or even really watch) so yeah, I'm probably wrong there.

They gave it a good shot by putting it up against the 134 HP car with a top speed of 128 mph (after all most of the viewing public is not going to know about some limited anniversary low HP version of the car not available in the US and just assume it's the supercharged version like is sold here now) rather than putting up against an S240 with sticky rubber, big brakes, and better suspension and downforce. Not to mention the roadster also costs about three and a half times the cost of the Elise S, maybe more if they need they need to ship them back to England after the drivetrain is installed here. They gave it a fair car to compete against. If they really wanted to do a set up showing it get trounced they could of picked the car that is on our showrooms with 100HP more than the one they used, and is still about half the price. And in part of the test the Tesla would still look great because it would beat the S240 in a drag race.
The Elise gets trounced by a lot of cars too, and it competitive with a lot of cars costing several times its price- I think that is part of the appeal to a lot of us here. The cars that beat it aren't usually a third or half the price.

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post #28 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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...i just added video from the test in question to the top post...
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Why is everything a race for you people? The lap time is irrelevant, the car is designed to be a sporty touring car, not a hard core track machine.

Is it really that hard for you to understand that some sports cars are not set up to be track demons?
...it's not that it was slightly slower than the exige, it's that its handling was so terrible that it finished slightly slower than the exige despite a dramatic accelleration advantage...

...the tesla's been hyped incessantly regarding its performance advantages, but until now little has been said of its significant handling compromises - i think a lot of us assumed it would drive like a dramatically more powerful elise...

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post #29 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:02 AM
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Does a Lotus help the USA (or any country) wean themselves from foreign oil dependency?

Does a Lotus introduce any new technology for vehicles in any way?

Does a Lotus eliminate CO2 emissions from burning gasoline?

Does Lotus even make their own engines?

I think you can see what I am getting at. Electric cars are the way of the future, and they're available in the present. Just like Model T's were the way of the future in 1908, though they were basically open to the elements and very loud when compared with traditional horse drawn carriages.

If you step back and take a look at the hurdles that had to be overcome by Tesla to produce this vehicle, compared to simply designing a chassis around existing/proven technology as Lotus does, you'll probably be more inclined to give them a fairer shake. The fact that the Tesla is matching times put up by Porsche just goes to show how ridiculous some of you are being.

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post #30 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:05 AM
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I am not sure what you are all on about, it did a 1:27.2 (same as a Porsche GT3) on a damp circuit and the Exige did 1:26.9 in the dry

Why is everything a race for you people? The lap time is irrelevant, the car is designed to be a sporty touring car, not a hard core track machine.

If the lap time is so important to you, perhaps you should have bought a Caterham (or better yet the Gumpert) instead of that POS Lotus


That's OK. I like my POS luxury car.

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post #31 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:06 AM
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fifth gear isn't as independant as their revenue comes from advertising sales, amongst other things, where top gears doesn't, they're certainly not the be all and end all and i doubt anyone believes they are, but then they're all entertainment really, TG are going to be able to be harsher than most.

from what i understand clarkson doesn't like electric cars, but i thought he gave the tesla a pretty good review, nothing worse than plastic toasters made by turnip farmers

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post #32 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkLotus View Post
Does a Lotus help the USA (or any country) wean themselves from foreign oil dependency?
yes.

Quote:
Does a Lotus introduce any new technology for vehicles in any way?
yes

Quote:
Does a Lotus eliminate CO2 emissions from burning gasoline?
i don't think anyone can eliminate that, but they've been working on 'green' cars for a while now.

Quote:
Does Lotus even make their own engines?
they have, and they've designed in conjuction with a maker, but why reinvent the wheel , yamaha/toyota etc have considerably more resources.

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post #33 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:12 AM
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charliex, perhaps you can provide more details? instead of just a factless yes? any car that burns gas needs gas. Any country that needs gas needs a source for gas. Simply saying "yes" to the thought-questions doesn't make make the answer true.

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post #34 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DarkLotus View Post
Does a Lotus help the USA (or any country) wean themselves from foreign oil dependency?

Does a Lotus introduce any new technology for vehicles in any way?

Does a Lotus eliminate CO2 emissions from burning gasoline?

Does Lotus even make their own engines?
...well, since you bring it up - group lotus in fact generates more revenue from their engineering consultation than from car sales...

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post #35 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:17 AM
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charliex, perhaps you can provide more details? instead of just a sheep-like yes?


Yes.

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post #36 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:18 AM
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charliex, perhaps you can provide more details? instead of just a factless yes? any car that burns gas needs gas. Any country that needs gas needs a source for gas. Simply saying "yes" to the thought-questions doesn't make make the answer true.
sure thing, lotus posts its case studies for different tech they're working on on their engineering site, they also provide information in their newsletter, they don't have all of them up there, but here's a few.

» Case Studies
» Green Technology

Lotus engineering does work on a lot of cars for different manufacturers, but you don't always get to hear about it, lots of secrecy goes on.

Here is their newsletter, lots of info in here about what they do.

» proActive

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post #37 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:21 AM
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ECO elise
Exige 265E
Exige 270 tri fuel
lightweight modular aluminum chassis
should cover some of your questions

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post #38 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkLotus View Post
Does a Lotus help the USA (or any country) wean themselves from foreign oil dependency?

Does a Lotus introduce any new technology for vehicles in any way?

Does a Lotus eliminate CO2 emissions from burning gasoline?

Does Lotus even make their own engines?

I think you can see what I am getting at. Electric cars are the way of the future, and they're available in the present. Just like Model T's were the way of the future in 1908, though they were basically open to the elements and very loud when compared with traditional horse drawn carriages.

If you step back and take a look at the hurdles that had to be overcome by Tesla to produce this vehicle, compared to simply designing a chassis around existing/proven technology as Lotus does, you'll probably be more inclined to give them a fairer shake. The fact that the Tesla is matching times put up by Porsche just goes to show how ridiculous some of you are being.
Lotus is an engineering company. More so than a car company. They provide such world re-known engineering that guess who Tesla went to when then needed a car made? They develop and provide all sorts of technology for other companies and have done so for years. They also have worked alt. fuel vehicle technology for quite some time. They pioneered advancement in Formula One, developing principals of aerodynamics and downforce. Search for Lotus Engineering. You'll find lots of stuff. Have been pioneers in lightweight technology which does help conserve resources. They have made their own engines and developed engines for other companies (Corvette ZR1 comes to mind) You should get their newsletter. There is a lot more to them than Elises. They even make the Tesla for Tesla. If not for Lotus frame and body- it would just be a battery pack and motor sourced by a different company.

Lotus very philosophy is add power through lightweight. A very green idea. It is one reason my lowly Elise can compete around a track with cars costing several times more, and then on the ride home get 30+ mpg while they get 9, or their tow vehicle does. Also at the end of the day less tires, brake rotors, and clutches went to the dump. Pretty green race car if you ask me.

Oh and in 1908 electric cars actually outsold gas models. A model T also got about 25 mpg- about the same as Ford's CAFE now.

I agree with alternative fuel being the way of the future though. Just probably hybrids or bio-diesel instead.

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post #39 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:40 AM
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Interesting reading. Everyone knows that Lotus designed and builds the chassis for the Tesla, naturally

As a company it sounds like Lotus has their hands in everything. That is pretty badass.

Interesting thought: Since the Tesla frame/body is designed and built by Lotus, wouldn't that mean that many of you who are posting angry things should focus that anger on Lotus instead? Basically , the Tesla is the same concept as the Lotus Elise: Source the drive, design/build the frame? So isn't it really Lotus Engineering's fault that it corners the way it does?

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post #40 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:41 AM
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no , in fact quite the opposite, if it weren't for the lotus chassis, it'd probably be a lot worse than it is.

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