...the Tesla roadster: what a wallowing pig of a car!.. - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:45 AM
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I am not an engineer, but I don't follow. Shouldn't the Tesla be performing exactly as it was designed to perform? In other words: it was designed to have that much body roll, and that cornering ability, etc etc.

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post #42 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:49 AM
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Unfortunately not even Lotus can defy the laws of physics, the batteries, motor and transmission in the tesla are very heavy, the super lightweight and strong chassis allowed them to cut off a lot of weight that would have otherwise made it a lot worse.

I believe 1/3rd of the cars weight is battery, its 992lbs.

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post #43 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:54 AM
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So you're saying that Lotus designed it to perform exactly as it does, using the existing conditions set forth by the drivetrain requirements.

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post #44 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 10:58 AM
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Tesla are the ones who set out the goals, not lotus, they just helped them achieve it.

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post #45 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:00 AM
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Oh if any of you are curious I found this

Top Gear Test Track - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It lists the lap times put up by the various cars tested by Top Gear

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post #46 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:11 AM
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fifth gear isn't as independant as their revenue comes from advertising sales, amongst other things, where top gears doesn't.....
Didn't know that, so thanks for the correction. Meaning fifth gear, i knew top gear was independent from advertising money. I wasn't trying to say that fifthgear was 100% right, just that the two had such different reviews.

It did almost look like Clarkson was trying to throw it very hard into corners, almost to exaggerate the bad handling and body roll, then again i'm no expert.
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post #47 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:20 AM
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I may be going against the grain here but I thought the Tesla did fine.

The same time as a Porsche GT3 is very impressive. Sure it may have some body roll but it weighs a lot more. It looks like it would spank our NA Eliges in almost every category...

If it takes a forced induction in a Lotus to beat the electric car then I think they did pretty well for themselves
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post #48 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:28 AM
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The UK Elise S carries the AD07's
And those are base wheels, which are silver, right? The one on TG has black wheels but black pack isn't listed as an option for the Elise S although sport pack is (without the wheel color being specified though).


Doesn't matter too much though, as I was more going off Clarkson's comment that the Tesla had economy minded tires on it. If so, that would certainly account for a lack of grip - if the Tesla indeed had AD07s on it, than I'd look more to the car not being set up as well for handling.

Either way, thoughts of the Tesla as "an electric Elise" are dead.

torque (trk) n. - an excuse for the lack of momentum.
- let's bring back CanAm & Group B!
- have you hugged your Exige today?
I'm currently working on my performance driving merit badge.
There's always somebody faster, sometimes it's me.
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post #49 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:40 AM
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They gave it a good shot by putting it up against the 134 HP car with a top speed of 128 mph (after all most of the viewing public is not going to know about some limited anniversary low HP version of the car not available in the US and just assume it's the supercharged version like is sold here now) rather than putting up against an S240 with sticky rubber, big brakes, and better suspension and downforce.
Most of the viewing public is not in the US.

Cody and I might run laps around our local track and be within a second of each other either way. He might run a second better than me on some laps and I might run a second better than him on some laps. I do not think it's of huge significance considering the target market of the Tesla.

What other all electric cars have matched the lap time of a GT3 on Top Gear? What? None? I'm not going to run out and buy a Tesla, but neither am I going to jump on the "OMG the Tesla sucks" bandwagon.

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post #50 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bane View Post
I may be going against the grain here but I thought the Tesla did fine.

The same time as a Porsche GT3 is very impressive. Sure it may have some body roll but it weighs a lot more. It looks like it would spank our NA Eliges in almost every category...

If it takes a forced induction in a Lotus to beat the electric car then I think they did pretty well for themselves
I'm gonna second that.
Very respectable time despite the fact that it had to carry 1,000 lbs of "energy source".

It's just a matter of time (30 years! ) that batteries will get better energy density and/or fuel cells will provide good thrust without having to weigh a ton (literally).

An electric motor and a single speed transmission:
Every mechanic's/part store's nightmare!

My daily driver is an orange plastic toaster
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post #51 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 11:57 AM
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I didn't say it sucked. I said I think they picked a car to give it a fair comparison. Very similar top speed and quite outclassed in acceleration and torque. Note my other post showing it out accelerating even the Exige S, a car with 100HP more than the one they put it up against.

I don't see how if we point out anything that isn't complete and utter praise that we are on the "it sucks" bandwagon?

It's great for what it is. For a short drive anyone should be very happy with it and it will cost very little to "fill up". Whether I agree if it's great for what they say it is, and for the price, range, dealer network, neither proven nor unproven reliability? whether the company fires the employeed in my hometown by blog post etc for ME- well that is only my opinion and would be off topic in this post. And I'm not in the market so it even further doesn't matter. If you have 6 figures to spend and want a 2 seat electric sports car that accelerates very fast it probably is the best car for you and that's what counts since you are the target market.
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post #52 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 12:00 PM
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An electric motor and a single speed transmission:
Every mechanic's/part store's nightmare!
You are correct. Go research the RAV4 EV. Plenty of them still out there running around great with raving owner experience about little or no service. It's a shame GM and Chevron/Texaco put a halt to it's battery technology. Even Jay Leno's 100+ year old baker electric is still going on the lead acid batteries. I don't know what Telsa is using for batteries. I hope it's not the same as my macbook though, because that one is crap. lol. Nickel Metal Hydride is reliable but not able to be used as it's owned by the oil companies. LiIon shows promise if they don't catch on fire. It's really the batteries why we don't have electrics on the road- and the technology is out there, just if the oil companies get the patent - and they can certainly afford it, it's locked up. You see the commercials where BP tells you how much money they spend on research and development of alternative fuel technology. You bet your @ss they do. If they can patent it than car companies can't use it- and guess what everyone if forced to keep on using?

I guess you could still fix the brakes though.

Last edited by SweetDaddyD; 12-15-2008 at 12:05 PM.
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post #53 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 12:20 PM
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Li+ is nice but they should be putting Lithium polymer batteries in there... lower weight, higher energy density, lower internal resistance, ~20X faster charging. can be made square unlike Li+ which gives you more space when packing them. and they only burst into flame if you over charge them.

more expensive at the moment but its a price you have to pay for that sort of thing

Dude, there's my car!
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post #54 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 12:39 PM
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Does a Lotus introduce any new technology for vehicles in any way?
Wow. Where have you been?
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post #55 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 12:45 PM
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Actually I own one of these Elise S 40th Limited Editions ... and I had the chance to drive a tesla here at the Zurich Motorshow one month ago.

I didn't like the tesla .. the extra weight kills it all. You don't have this agility of an elise anymore .. with the 175 AD07 in the front the car just understeers and understeers.

And there is the braking performance ... omg .. the acceleration is but the braking is I almost missed the stop at the first red light.

With the extra weight the tesla needs better brakes ..definitely! The brakes are not adequate for a fast accelerating (sports)car like this.

For me the telsa is just like a conceptcar .. normally you can't buy these (for a good reason) but in this case you can drop a deposit and maybe you get one.
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post #56 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 12:50 PM
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Wow. Where have you been?
Wow, very informative post, chock full of relevant and factual information!

Plenty of other posts hours before yours actually were informative, relevant, and factual responses to my questions. You sir, win the internet.

Eventual Lotus owner.

Last edited by DarkLotus; 12-15-2008 at 12:55 PM.
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post #57 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 03:09 PM
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Is it really that hard for you to understand that some sports cars are not set up to be track demons?
It's a street sports car that is more to show up to at the clubs and take a nice drive down a country road than to do hot laps around a track in

Morgan,
it is hard for me to understand since both my street cars are trucks, one being a 1 ton dually.........., the other a full sized 3/4 ton truck

my country road has corner workers, tire barrieirs, or haybails, and the scene repeats itself every 1.5 miles or so

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Last edited by fishguy; 12-15-2008 at 03:15 PM.
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post #58 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 03:50 PM
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I didn't say it sucked.
Sorry SD; Only my first sentence about the viewing audience of Tog Gear was a response to your post. The rest of it was just me speaking generally about my position in this thread.

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post #59 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 03:50 PM
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People crying about the tires were fine with the tires for the drag race portion.

I'm just bummed that people think it's the same Elise we have (and in all fairness, it's only the same as the Elise only 50 people in Europe have), although that model did give the best chance of illustrating a fair track comparison- Elise S actually should of lost on the surface- Same top speed but not near the torque. 0-60 on that model is waaaaay less than the Tesla, whereas the S240 is closer. Same tires on both cars so just another example of light weight FTW! (Go Chapman! Light weight should be the way of the future it would make every car more eco friendly and perform better in going, stopping, and cornering)

Would of been need to put it up against the same chassis it was based on but on Lotus eco cruiser- the Exige 265E.


Quoted from link:
TechEBlog » Road Test: Lotus Exige 265E

"Not only is the Lotus Exige 265E the most powerful road version of the Exige ever, it runs on Bio Fuel. The 265E sports a supercharged, 1.8L inline-4 (2ZZ VVTL-i) that produces 264hp @ 8000rpm and 184 lb-ft torque @ 5500rpm -- rocketing it from 0-60 in just 3.88-seconds."

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBzmmO-3Cdo&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=playe r_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBzmmO-3Cdo&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=playe r_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Oh and Darklotus: ^^^ there is one more answer to your earlier question(s).
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post #60 of 107 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 03:54 PM
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the reality is most people in this country are more impressed with 0-60 time than handling...

2011 M3 convertible

Previous car #2 - 2008 Elise SC Ardent Red - Touring, Sport, Starshield (found a new home)

Previous car #1 - 2005 Elise Saffron Yellow (totaled in flood- the original underwater elise)
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