Wheego- Major Depreciation - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Wheego- Major Depreciation

I saw that a dealer in NY carried this brand but never heard of it, and then saw that one was for sale at Enterprise Rent a Car for about $16K with 150 miles. Looks like they are discounting them by about 50% off from what their website says the list price is.

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Pricing | wheego | electric vehicles
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 09:07 PM
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In case you wanted to see what it is......

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 04:37 AM
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Wow, very original styling.

Not like it looks like a Smart or anything.

I just think this whole electric thing is ridiculous.

Just watched MotorWeek where they talked about the Leaf and the Volt.

The Leaf? 100 miles or so on full charge. Full charge takes, get this, 20 hours from a 120 line. 8 plus hours from their 'charging station' that you have to buy for $2,200. Plus the car is $34K base (before the guvments tax credit).

Sorry, but 100 miles? That makes this soooo impractical. Perhaps a little 'city car', but after having grown up and lived in Downtown/Lincoln Park Chicago for 30 plus years, you dont really use your car on the weekends. Park it on Friday, drive again on Monday. Cabs and walking everywhere. The only time I drove on weekends was the random Target run or to visit family/friends in the burbs (and 100 range would be pushing it).

Not to mention:

- Cost - yes cheaper over time, but not a lot of people can afford a $35K car whether the maintenance is cheap or not. When you actually get a car you WANT to look at, sit in and drive - Fisker, Tesla S - they are well over $65K. I think the novelty of 'its electric' wears off and you realize you're driving a $35K car that makes the interior of a Toyota Yaris look like a Maybach.
- Cars - tiny little econobox crap cars. Some of us that have families and stuff to lug? Not an option. Every one of these electric cars looks like a clown car. Hard to take them seriously. Couldn't imagine being hit by a carpenter in an F350 in one.
- Disposal of batteries - where? how?
- Trips/Sales Reps/Road People/etc - electric cars won't work.
- Where to charge? So, you need a charging station. If you're a city dweller, you most likely don't have a garage. Can't use it for people who park outside. Ok, now they'll put charging stations at gas stations. 30 Min to charge. So, what do you do? Wait for 3 hours behind 5 cars to charge? Who has 30 min to sit and wait at a gas station while your car charges? Work? Sure, they put a few in the office parking lot. Now you have 20 people trying to charge sequentially?

I think like internet browsing via phones, laptop wifi and others, the technology, in it's first release, just simply is not there. I'll predict that electric cars will come in all shapes and sizes and cost points in the next 20 years. I'd imagine the roads will be full of them. I just don't think we are there yet.

Last edited by SwingLo; 11-25-2010 at 04:48 AM. Reason: more
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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The batterys on a Tesla last about 100000 miles and I was told that they are about $10000 to replace. I dont know how much they will cost on a Leaf or Volt, but on an average car, you wouldnt spend anywhere near that much in gas or oil over 100,000 miles.

So most Volts or Leafs that are 5 or 6 years old will need new batteries which will cost more that the car would be worth after it depreciates. Unless battery costs come down, or until all manufacturers use a standard battery package and rechargng system to drive down prices, it wont be worth it.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 09:10 AM
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The batterys on a Tesla last about 100000 miles and I was told that they are about $10000 to replace. I dont know how much they will cost on a Leaf or Volt, but on an average car, you wouldnt spend anywhere near that much in gas or oil over 100,000 miles.

So most Volts or Leafs that are 5 or 6 years old will need new batteries which will cost more that the car would be worth after it depreciates. Unless battery costs come down, or until all manufacturers use a standard battery package and rechargng system to drive down prices, it wont be worth it.
a 10k battery pack is not a deal breaker - here is why. prices will continue to decline, technology will contunue to improve. not long ago you typical car needed a new engine around 100k and is not unheard of today either... so call a mean average for a new engine ..what, 5k? so the gap, while i agree is there, is not THAT large. by the time electric drivetrain become main stream, battery replament cost will not be that big of a deal, and besides.

volt obviously has a much smaller smaller battery pack since it is a EV hybrid. so "technically" like 1/3 or so of a tesla.

"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
-Lotus Cars VP of Global Design
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 09:18 AM
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The batterys on a Tesla last about 100000 miles and I was told that they are about $10000 to replace. I dont know how much they will cost on a Leaf or Volt, but on an average car, you wouldnt spend anywhere near that much in gas or oil over 100,000 miles.

So most Volts or Leafs that are 5 or 6 years old will need new batteries which will cost more that the car would be worth after it depreciates. Unless battery costs come down, or until all manufacturers use a standard battery package and rechargng system to drive down prices, it wont be worth it.
100,000 miles / 30mpg x $3.00 per gallon = $10,000, which sounds pretty close to $10,000 to me.

Even if you factor in the $1000-$2000 cost of the electricity over those 100,000 miles you're still coming out ahead given the regular maintenance your average car will need that the electric won't.

2010 Tesla Roadster
2008 Lotus Exige S240 sold
2006 Lotus Elise RIP
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 10:52 AM
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I bet the $10k is just the disposal fee.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 11:13 AM
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Just for kicks, let's substitute the word "Elise" in place of "electric car" into that argument and see what we get

"I think the novelty of 'its an Elise' wears off and you realize you're driving a $45K car that makes the interior of a Toyota Yaris look like a Maybach.
- Cars - tiny little econobox crap cars. Some of us that have families and stuff to lug? Not an option. Every one of these Elise cars looks like a clown car. Hard to take them seriously. Couldn't imagine being hit by a carpenter in an F350 in one.
- Disposal of batteries - where? how?
- Trips/Sales Reps/Road People/etc - "Elise" cars won't work.
- Where to park? ... If you're a city dweller, you most likely don't have a garage. Can't use it for people who park outside."

I just test drove a Leaf yesterday, and it's basically like a Versa except with a ton more torque and lot less range. It's a real, 5-person car. Obviously, a 100 mile range car won't be a family's only vehicle, just like an Elise won't. And if you are one of the tiny minority of drivers logging more than 100 miles a day, it won't work for you unless you have a fast charger at your workplace.

A number of cities are installing electric chargers in public parking lots. The price of the parking for an hour far exceeds the value of the electricity ($2.75 to fully charge a Leaf).

A friend of mine commutes in a Tesla. He just uses a standard wall plug instead of the expensive fast charger because his 20 mile daily commute doesn't use much juice.

It's funny how people argue the economics (rightfully so) of alternative powertrains but don't argue the economics of $2000 nav systems vs. $20Thomas Guides, or carbon diffusers vs. aluminum ones.

Hybrids and modern electric cars do not use the highly toxic lead-acid batteries used in conventional cars.

Last edited by Kermit; 11-25-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 12:33 PM
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It's been a while since I posted the numbers, but it's cheaper in "fuel" costs to run a solar powered electric car than it is a gas car.

Solar panels on your house in many states are 60% off from tax credits. They carry a 20 year warranty and last far longer than that.

If you compare $3-4 premium in an Elise at 25-30 MPG to the cost of powering a Tesla with solar panels for 20 years, the Tesla wins on fuel costs. Of course, coal-sourced electrical power is *far* cheaper if you don't mind miners dying, mountains being removed, smog and heavy metals in the air.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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It's been a while since I posted the numbers, but it's cheaper in "fuel" costs to run a solar powered electric car than it is a gas car.

Solar panels on your house in many states are 60% off from tax credits. They carry a 20 year warranty and last far longer than that.

If you compare $3-4 premium in an Elise at 25-30 MPG to the cost of powering a Tesla with solar panels for 20 years, the Tesla wins on fuel costs. Of course, coal-sourced electrical power is *far* cheaper if you don't mind miners dying, mountains being removed, smog and heavy metals in the air.
I guy I went to high school with is building an all solar powered city in Florida. If it ever gets done it will be pretty interesting. They plan on possibly having small electric powered cars that run along the road that dont need driver input that even kids can sit in, instead of using buses. Also recharging stations will be located in various areas I just dont know what will happen if a hurricane knocks out all the solar panels!


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Video of automated electric car transportation:
http://www.babcockranchflorida.com/a...s_vehicles.asp
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 08:36 PM
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Just for kicks, let's substitute the word "Elise" in place of "electric car" into that argument and see what we get

"I think the novelty of 'its an Elise' wears off and you realize you're driving a $45K car that makes the interior of a Toyota Yaris look like a Maybach.
- Cars - tiny little econobox crap cars. Some of us that have families and stuff to lug? Not an option. Every one of these Elise cars looks like a clown car. Hard to take them seriously. Couldn't imagine being hit by a carpenter in an F350 in one.
- Disposal of batteries - where? how?
- Trips/Sales Reps/Road People/etc - "Elise" cars won't work.
- Where to park? ... If you're a city dweller, you most likely don't have a garage. Can't use it for people who park outside."

I just test drove a Leaf yesterday, and it's basically like a Versa except with a ton more torque and lot less range. It's a real, 5-person car. Obviously, a 100 mile range car won't be a family's only vehicle, just like an Elise won't. And if you are one of the tiny minority of drivers logging more than 100 miles a day, it won't work for you unless you have a fast charger at your workplace.

A number of cities are installing electric chargers in public parking lots. The price of the parking for an hour far exceeds the value of the electricity ($2.75 to fully charge a Leaf).

A friend of mine commutes in a Tesla. He just uses a standard wall plug instead of the expensive fast charger because his 20 mile daily commute doesn't use much juice.

It's funny how people argue the economics (rightfully so) of alternative powertrains but don't argue the economics of $2000 nav systems vs. $20Thomas Guides, or carbon diffusers vs. aluminum ones.

Hybrids and modern electric cars do not use the highly toxic lead-acid batteries used in conventional cars.
Yes, but the Elise isn't thought of as an everyday car. It's a weekend/track/toy car. Pretty much every person who has an Elise has a 'daily driver'.

These electro boxes are meant to be your daily cars.

Ironically enough, was at Tesla Menlo Park today. They have 'kermit' green one that says 'tesla' across the bottom. Honestly, it looked like a Honda Del Sol. I simply don't see the $130-150K they are commanding.

As for the $2K nav system - sorry, I don't see the comparison. The electric cars have a range that makes them impractical to MANY drivers. They are very expensive to purchase up front. The charging, like it or not, is a big issues.

Like I said, in 20 years, we'll all be driving them, but they technology just isn't there yet for me.
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