Factory 5 818 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Factory 5 818

I'd have to say this is Lotus "Inspired" at least in that it uses a Japanese powertrain mounted amidships with every effort to keep it light.

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/

Anyone going to build one?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 03:41 PM
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 03:56 PM
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I thought long and hard about building that last year when I wanted a cool sports car, then I got a Lotus instead. I do not think I would want to have to explain the car a million times to everyone who asked what it is. Instead I can answer simply 'it's a Lotus'. If I was going to build a car like that, I had decided against the 818 however, it was going to be the GTA/Apex from super lite cars. Sadly phone calls and emails went unanswered. I could have gone to their shop since they are local to me but I am happy in the end knowing what I have is already amazing and takes no explaining
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 03:59 PM
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I really like these guys and the work they do. I'm sure at 818 kg and 270 bhp the thing is a blast. But this thing looks like a bad Fiero body kit. And this was the winner of a styling contest! They had thousands of styles to choose from and this is what they went with?

As far as it being Lotus-inspired, I'm not sure about that. Fiberglass on steel space frames have been around alot longer than Lotus has and Lotus doesn't even do it. Speaking of Fiero, there's a plastic on space frame car...

Last edited by me73; 06-10-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 05:48 PM
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echo everything above... i was really excited about this car until I saw the crowd-sourced design.


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 06:47 PM
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re: 818

I like the 818 idea. I think the concept of a mid-engined sports car has finally reached mainstream! 50 years after it conquered F1!!!

This is what I like:

1. Cost.
2. Steel space-frame. Easy to build and fix.
3. Subaru motor and transaxle. I keep on thinking about swapping that into
a Lotus. The factory unit is good for 400hp and there are upgrades and sequentials widely avaialble. Local regional sprints have been won by heavily modified Subarus.
4. The engine runs N-S! The right way!

There is lots to dislike:

1. Subary suspension. Although nice, it is not double wishbone.
2. Steel space-frame. There is got to be a better lighter way to bild a car!
3. Subi drivetrain. Some people say it is not too reliable.
4. Styling is very pedestrian.
5. Wilwood brakes.

Anton
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
I like the 818 idea. I think the concept of a mid-engined sports car has finally reached mainstream! 50 years after it conquered F1!!!

This is what I like:

1. Cost.
2. Steel space-frame. Easy to build and fix.
3. Subaru motor and transaxle. I keep on thinking about swapping that into
a Lotus. The factory unit is good for 400hp and there are upgrades and sequentials widely avaialble. Local regional sprints have been won by heavily modified Subarus.
4. The engine runs N-S! The right way!

There is lots to dislike:

1. Subary suspension. Although nice, it is not double wishbone.
2. Steel space-frame. There is got to be a better lighter way to bild a car!
3. Subi drivetrain. Some people say it is not too reliable.
4. Styling is very pedestrian.
5. Wilwood brakes.

Anton
There have been mid-engine cars that were much more mainstream than this kit car over the past 40 years. 914, TR7, X19, Fiero, MR2, hardly a new concept.

The suspension on the 818 is double a-arm front and multilink rear.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
I like the 818 idea. I think the concept of a mid-engined sports car has finally reached mainstream! 50 years after it conquered F1!!!

This is what I like:

1. Cost.
2. Steel space-frame. Easy to build and fix.
3. Subaru motor and transaxle. I keep on thinking about swapping that into
a Lotus. The factory unit is good for 400hp and there are upgrades and sequentials widely avaialble. Local regional sprints have been won by heavily modified Subarus.
4. The engine runs N-S! The right way!

There is lots to dislike:

1. Subary suspension. Although nice, it is not double wishbone.
2. Steel space-frame. There is got to be a better lighter way to bild a car!
3. Subi drivetrain. Some people say it is not too reliable.
4. Styling is very pedestrian.
5. Wilwood brakes.

Anton
It is double wishbone. As for steel frame, if you have a better idea for a $10K kit car let me know, but this car, all in, is supposed to cost under $15K out of pocket to build. That pretty much exludes more exotic materials or methods. Even doubling that price for contingencies, extras and to have it built for you is cheaper than a comparably powerful Elise.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 08:56 AM
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re: 818

I did not look very hard last time but the front Subi suspension looked like a modified strut to me.... In any case the lower a-arm looks funky and strange to me. The rear with 4-link... in this day and age... Wow! I though only old 'Vettes had that (C4's before I get flamed)

I am joking a little. The suspension design should be OK, especially if properly strengthened and modded...

I will not take back my comment about mild steel tubing. In this day and age saying that for $10k we have to use material out of 19th century is a little discouraging. Why not cast iron sewer pipe !?!

There is not that much tube in the car, let's say 150'. Chrome Moly tubing would be stiffer and lighter (them even aluminum) for same strenth. It is a little harder to weld, but not that much in a factory setting. Also it is a slightly more expensive, let us say $5 per foot, still only $750. At 150' it would represent 100 to 150 lbs weight saving!

Aluminum like RCR is another material. It is alightly more expensive. One does not need extrusions. RCR and Diasio make aluminum space frames.

Based on the fact that Lambo, Ferrari and Alfa 4c use carbon tubs and do not cost as much a s a fighter jet, means we will see readily accessible Carbon tubs and autoclaves in the next 10years. (For small volume manufacturing).

Would you not pay $5k extra for full carbon tub and aluminum front and rear sub-frame. With the amount of fiberglass on the 818, full carbon (thin racing body) would not be that much more, maybe $3k. Now we would be in 650kg territory with 400hp. Just like old Formula Atlantic or F3!!!

Do not take me wrong. I like 818 and have been watching it for a while...

There are so many cars with transverse mid-engine layouts.... Everyone is trying to make one. There is a guy on Honda forum (k20a.org) that built one from scratch and will write a book about it.

We need to move to the next level! 1500lbs or less!!! 400hp or more!!! $20k or less!!!

I think, I just invented a slogan. We should start a club or a forum...!

We should encourage F5 and RCR and others.

Anton



Quote:
Originally Posted by kverges View Post
It is double wishbone. As for steel frame, if you have a better idea for a $10K kit car let me know, but this car, all in, is supposed to cost under $15K out of pocket to build. That pretty much exludes more exotic materials or methods. Even doubling that price for contingencies, extras and to have it built for you is cheaper than a comparably powerful Elise.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
I will not take back my comment about mild steel tubing. In this day and age saying that for $10k we have to use material out of 19th century is a little discouraging. Why not cast iron sewer pipe !?!

There is not that much tube in the car, let's say 150'. Chrome Moly tubing would be stiffer and lighter (them even aluminum) for same strenth. It is a little harder to weld, but not that much in a factory setting. Also it is a slightly more expensive, let us say $5 per foot, still only $750. At 150' it would represent 100 to 150lbs weight savings.

Anton

So, you are suggesting that the frame of the 818 could be so light that it would float away if not constrained? I would guess that the current mild steel frame is pretty close to 150lbs.

Frames are designed around hard points like powertrain, driver, suspension pickup points, etc. This means that whether 4130 or mild steel, the 818 frame would look pretty much the same and therefore have similar stiffness (resistance to deflection) regardless of steel spec. The 4130 frame would be stronger from a yield standpoint, but not stiffness.

I have no quarrel with your view of what builders should be trying to achieve. That said, remember that for most of us cost dominates the feasibility equation. RCR cars/kits price out something like 4x the 818.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 06:40 PM
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I've been a fan of Factory Five since 1998. I'd like to build a car with my kids once they're old enough. I've been watching the development of the 818 since the beginning and even went as far as to email them my thoughts about the design finalists. There were some very nice designs in that final group, including one that resembled an Elise (but not as good looking)
This was one of the design finalist.
Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1371176250.626122.jpg
Views: 13173
Size:  89.3 KB

Thing looks mean as hell. I would have signed up for that, but what they ended up with looks like a cross between a Mitsubishi Eclipse,Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1371177534.023640.jpg
Views: 3813
Size:  66.6 KB Hyundai Tiburon Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1371177551.706216.jpg
Views: 3429
Size:  44.6 KBand a bad Japanese aftermarket nose.Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1371177569.923055.jpg
Views: 3714
Size:  67.7 KB I think it looks dated and ugly. Very disappointed. But,.......could you imagine building the first car for under $25k? I think a lot of us would have considered that as a fun project car. It's even drawn up in Lotus colors, what more could we ask for?


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 06:47 PM
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In case you didn't visit the FF site here's a picture of the 818:
Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1371178029.455734.jpg
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 05:23 AM
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i see a little bit of a ferrari and an s2k in there

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 08:10 AM
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re: 818

I really like the runner up yellow and green pic, above.

What they actually came out with, just does not do anything for me.

I would get the yellow and green runner up, tomorrow.

Instead, I am waiting for the Alfa 4c

Anton
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 08:20 AM
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All I see are Camry headlights.



Overall I think its not bad, but its not good either.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 08:31 AM
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I don't think it's good. The quality in the pictures looks horrible, I'm not even going to fathom what it might be in person. It's a great concept, but poor execution. Maybe version 2.0 will be better.

Hmm...
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 06:50 AM
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I was wondering where those headlights came from!


At least it wasn't like the Vector show car.

Gotta love Toyota headlights...


And then rendered, you know until they fix it.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 07:48 PM
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Yeah, definitely not a smart idea to recycle headlights from an iconic sports car like a Supra. At least try to pic something a bit off the radar if you have to go that route. Noble for example, using Sonata tail lights:
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 06:44 PM
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FFR designs great kits, in my humble opinion. They tend to anticipate "off label" builds. If you have an ex racecar engine with outrageous power, I bet they'd be able to tell you if it would work and why. Their kits are for the average mechanically inclined guy who isn't afraid to try something new. I found the Cobra easy to put together and did so before I was on the web. Tons of support now online. But you do have to build it. I got out of my factory five because the state of Massachusetts changed the ruled and made it impossible to keep my Cobra legally on the road after going the 100% legit route putting it on the road. The 818 might be easier,but be sure to keep all the emissions stickers. You'll need them here.

The car will be a blast, for sure. I like the looks of it.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:30 PM
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