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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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interesting...

the more and more i look up lotus elise and exige, the more i find people wreck them....
why? either they are so fun everyone crashes them, or they arent for crap handling, or just a bunch of poopy drivers.

my midlife crisis car is a Lotus Elise or Exige, 1977 Trans Am or 1983 GMC Vandura A-Team Van....

so you guys just keep crashing them lotuss', because i want to buy a wrecked one for a project!
(since i dont have the money to buy a real one)

=)

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 03:48 AM
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Well, they are quite famous for their awful handling. That van on the other feels like it is a go kart


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
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that was sarcasm.... i know better =P
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 04:10 AM
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that was sarcasm.... i know better =P


A serious answer then - it is a little bit of everything. Speaking from personal experience, the car's abilities are much higher than my own so it is very easy to get carried away. As great as the car is, it can't do anything about crappy decisions on the driver's part.

The clamshells are fragile, expensive, and perennially backordered, so insurance adjusters often take the easy way out and total a car for damage that is really fixable since they just don't want to mess with it. That alone accounts for probably half to three quarters of the salvaged cars out there where it was a simple accident (probably because the other driver couldn't see the tiny car).

Lastly, it is made to be a track car and there is an associated risk with that. Naturally, you'll risk more taking a car on track and that's why so many insurance companies will drop you if you ever ask about their exclusions.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 04:22 AM
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Read an article on a Dutch bloke that crashed his Elise

see : Foto: Lotus 0 Divers Elise Crash Moordrecht Lotus Elise Crash 01 : Autoblog.nl

Rollbar seems to have gone underground :-( Driver got out without serious injuries, just a bit shaken up :-)
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 04:30 AM
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Is that link in Dutch? I need to brush up on that! Haha. "I pity the fool"

05 elise ardent red sport touring VF1 s/c, pro rad, arquay twin, etc etc etc
05 elise GG sport touring BWR s/c Charliex s/p dent in chassis=total loss
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 04:36 AM
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Is that link in Dutch? I need to brush up on that! Haha. "I pity the fool"
Yes it's in Dutch. Seems he hit the the light post right in the middle of the passenger door before going off-road
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 05:36 AM Thread Starter
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so insurance companys would rather total them then try to get parts .... NICE

im sure that would make alot of owners mad, im sure youd lose money, could you sue the insurance company for ripping you off?
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 01:51 PM
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so insurance companys would rather total them then try to get parts .... NICE



im sure that would make alot of owners mad, im sure youd lose money, could you sue the insurance company for ripping you off?

Emotional response varies, but rarely will you lose money. The buyback will be low because of the overestimated damage, so with a reasonable repair you can stand to pocket a good bit of money. The value on these is also rising,


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 02:02 PM
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I pity the fool! Or should I say "troll" you obviously did not do much research on these fragile yet awsome cars. There is nothing out there like them. I would much prefer you got a 71 firebird as they are tough rare and cool.Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1459893744.959356.jpg
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My $.02

05 elise ardent red sport touring VF1 s/c, pro rad, arquay twin, etc etc etc
05 elise GG sport touring BWR s/c Charliex s/p dent in chassis=total loss
17 BMW 428i conv wifes car
03 GMC Yukon
90 eclipse gsx 420 whp sold
04 civic si sold
13 Ford focus ST
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 02:03 PM
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LIft On Turns U Spin

Mid engined cars are the best racers because a skilled driver can get them around turns faster. Street driving teaches us to lift when things get hairy in turns. Snap oversteer is often the result in a short wheelbase mid engined vehicle. I've done it plenty, on track. Gotta keep at least a neutral throttle to keep weight balance on the rear wheels.

And morons like to back into them at stop lights.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 03:07 AM Thread Starter
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then the idea is simple....

you guys need those orange flags that they put on child bike carrier



couple of them on your lotus and people wont smash you so much =)
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016, 02:32 AM
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One of the dangers of these smaller cars is that people just won't see you. The other is that our need for speed can easily take over and we get carried away, hopefully not to the hospital.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-08-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
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then the idea is simple....

you guys need those orange flags that they put on child bike carrier



couple of them on your lotus and people wont smash you so much =)
There is a local Lotus seven owner that has a fiberglass whip with a bright LED light on the end, mounted to the rear of the car. I bet he had problems with people not seeing him.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-11-2016, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
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as dumb as it looks

its a good idea...


some extra led lighting on the car, depending on whatever the laws may be...
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-11-2016, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XHILR8N! View Post
LIft On Turns U Spin

Mid engined cars are the best racers because a skilled driver can get them around turns faster. Street driving teaches us to lift when things get hairy in turns. Snap oversteer is often the result in a short wheelbase mid engined vehicle. I've done it plenty, on track. Gotta keep at least a neutral throttle to keep weight balance on the rear wheels.

And morons like to back into them at stop lights.
Agreed that's the reason you see crashes and spins, including on track. In the videos, you can see people going faster than they should be going (either for the road or their own skill); they then lift off the throttle (which you can see if you look at the video very closely and know what to look for), and the car gets loose -- often, the lift happens in mid corner (out of fear to slow down), or as the car is about to transition from up hill to flat or down hill which is where the car becomes especially light (when they keep turning the wheel because there is less grip only to find the car rotating a lot when grip returns).

In street cars, it's not as exaggerated because: there's a lot of understeer built into the car; the throttle response is dulled (so the lift initially doesn't have much effect); the suspension is softer so the transition isn't as abrupt. In other words, the street cars are just more boring to drive.

That said, I have had my Elise for 5 years. I lost the back on track the first time I drove it on track but recovered without a spin (after passing a Porsche GT3RS and making the mistake of watching my mirrors to see if he was catching up on a straight instead of paying more attention to the next turn coming up). But when the back goes, it can be pretty hairy given the weight and polar moment of the car. If you don't know how to deal with spins, you will be screwed. So if you do buy a Lotus, try to get out at least to a skid pad and see what it feels like to have the car lose it's rear grip and oversteer.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 03:43 PM
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Thinking a little more on this. The light front of the Elise sometimes means you need to get the weight up front for a turn and sometimes you can use a lift to get the rotation you need. Gotta be real careful though, but if done right it's a blast. At Limerock race track, for example, as you come out of Turn 1 at the end of the straight and quickly head to Turn 2, you can briefly lift off the throttle with the Elise and the back will rotate out. And then you go right back to throttle and the car is pointed nice and straight for the little straight until Turn 3. If you get it right, it's a total blast. (If you lift too much though and don't get back to throttle to straighten out you could wind up in the wall.)
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 11:43 PM
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I managed to spin mine on a public road. Everything pointed to a spin. It had just started raining. I excelerated too fast from the lights to take a long left turn, plus it was a slight hill.

The bend was pretty much 90 degrees and just as I should have been heading straight out of the bend the backend just continued to carry on... like ice, no tire noise. I ended up 90 degrees more than I should have, and in slow motion remember looking straight into the eyes of a guy stopped at his red light thinking... please stop, my foot on brake.

Luckily the car stopped but I had crossed onto the other side of the road. Good news... I didn't hit anyone, I got lucky. Very lucky as nobody was in the lane I passed into. Must have been amazing to watch.. a whole line of cars were watching.

I don't remember but I can pretty much garentee I had lifted off the gas as I exited the corner.

Now I know the limit and learning to keep constant pressure and aware of lifting the gas.

Project cars on the Xbox helping me too.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 06:30 AM
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These cars are twitchy at the limit for sure and I am still learning.

I have experienced the lift/spin on the track twice, on two different tracks, one time on each track. I had the exact same thing happen as noted above. Both times were the kind of corner where you brake lightly and carry speed (like an chicane type turn) thru the turn. Both had a small hill crest just before the chicane. I came in hot and tried not to brake much. Then I realized I was going a little too fast so I lifted off the throttle as I entered the turn....and spin, spin, spin off I went.

Here's a video of one of them. You can see my mistake in the video here, this time exiting the chicane over a crest and braking for a big turn, here I lifted too early before the car was straight.


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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 06:51 AM
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Well, if you guys are going to talk about spins... I can't keep myself from posting these:

I thought it would be fun to compile all of the in-car video of track spins or saves that my wife or I have been a part of or witnessed from 2003-2012 in Part 1 and 2013 to 2015 in Part 2. Mostly from 2008+ in our '08 Lotus Exige-S 240.




If you have yet to try track or autocross Do Not let this video discourage you!! Part 1 covers about 18k track miles... starting when we were in the novice driving groups and new to the Lotus until late 2012.

In the beginning spins did sneak up on us... as we gained experience I would mess a lot with suspension settings just "to see what it would do". I often had over steer dialed in the car and often tried to get the car to rotate. Sometimes I was able to recover, sometimes not. As you gain experience you will more know when spins are coming and how to prevent them.

In Texas we are lucky to have very few walls and a lot of run off room at our tracks. When I know I am alone on the track (or no one behind me) I often like to play and rotate the car... drive at 11/10ths. That often leads to care free spins. Its fun! Sometimes it is not intentional but obviously if I was in an environment that had walls or heavy traffic I would not intentionally be driving at 11/10th.

I have never run anything less sticky than Yoko A048s / Toyo 888s which are harder to "drift" than normal street tires. Toward the end I had moved to Hoosier R6s.

Biggest piece of generic advice I can give if you are driving a mid engined car is that if the rear starts coming around DO NOT LIFT. Either stay neutral or in a low horsepower car like mine you should plant the throttle! There are clips in this vid where I am doing 90MPH and the rear is coming around... they only reason why I saved it was because I instinctively went full throttle. Generally the goal is to keep the car balanced. If the rear is coming around unintentionally then you need to shift more weight toward the back of the car... applying more throttle transfers weight from the front to the rear of the car.

I take pride in the fact that I drive a car without electronic gizmos that drive for me. My lap times are due to my skill or lack thereof, not electronic "help". The Lotus was made for this. It is a blast to drive mostly because *I* am doing the actual driving.

So, if you are interested in motorsports - whether you own a Lotus or not - get out there! No worries, if you don't want to spin you will learn to prevent it. Have fun!!!!


Click links to see my 2008 Lotus Exige-S 240 , '99 M3, 505rwhp '89 Mustang ( sold) , '05 WRX STI ( sold) homepages or here for my spin compilations (ispunuwin & ispinuwin2!)!
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