6pt Harness options. - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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6pt Harness options.

Right - Tillet B5's are on order and I'm looking into the best available harness and mounting solution. Car is a 2007 Exige S with track pack so the harness bar is already in there.

Critera are :

#1 Safety foremost - for me that means 6pts.
#2 Hans Compatible - no HANS no interest.
#3 Need to retain 3pt usage for street use.
#4 Headroom - I'm tall so dropping / reclining the seat a little would be nice.

So far the option most people goes for is Schroth - do Sabelt/Sparco or Willans make a compatible harness ?

What's the safest way to mount the Anti Sub belts ?

2" Vs 3" belts - will 3" belts spread the load better in case I ever have to really use the damn thing ?

Again - Criteria #1 is make this the safest system I can - cost isn't an issue - my safety is.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 02:01 PM
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i just put in a schroth profi 2 hans in my formula car.
i like it very much.
i have the Hybrid II HANS in one of my sedans, and also like it very much.

Schroth Racing Harnesses

dont skimp, which it sounds like you are not planning on doing

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_git View Post
So far the option most people goes for is Schroth - do Sabelt/Sparco or Willans make a compatible harness ?
any FIA 6pt harness you can buy will be hans compatible

Quote:
2" Vs 3" belts - will 3" belts spread the load better in case I ever have to really use the damn thing ?
not really. go with 2".
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by uncle_git View Post
2" Vs 3" belts - will 3" belts spread the load better in case I ever have to really use the damn thing ?
I concour with road racer; if you are like me, and wont get in the car w/o the HANS, then definately get the 2". the 2" is NOT to be used w/o a HANS device.
the 3" will also work with the device, and can be used w/o the device, but the 2" is a better fit over the device.
glad to see someone who values their safety over a few bucks in the bank account. when you need the stuff to work, you will be happy with your choice.

keep asking the right questions before you buy anything, and think it though from start to finish before you do the installation.

get it set up right, and drive it like you stole it.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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What about actually mounting the harness - most manufacturers seem to offer reinforcement plates but they seem to be steel.

The thread on the 6-pack from sector111 brings up a point as why this *could* be an issue on a lotus. Most vehicles you're attaching to steel - with the lotus it's aluminum - is galvanic corrosion a valid concern ?

I want to ensure the passenger harness is safe for both with and without Hans - would a 2"->3" setup like the Schroth enduro work better ?

Any recommended reading on harness installation - in particular anything specific to a lotus I need to be aware of ?

Sorry if it seems like I'm over thinking this - but I'm pretty set on keeping my insides on the inside.

[edit] Looks like 2" and 2"/3" belts are HANS only - you need full 3" belts to be safe without the Hans.


Last edited by uncle_git; 09-10-2010 at 10:14 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:34 PM
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[edit] Looks like 2" and 2"/3" belts are HANS only - you need full 3" belts to be safe without the Hans.
correct,
if the passenger is not using a HANS or defender ,then they should never be using 2" shoulder belts.
in this case i would go 3" shoulder belts for the passenger side, that way they can go with or w/o the HANS/defender.
use the 2" for your side since you have made it clear you will always be using the device.
i think there are things specific to the lotus because of the floor not being steel as you mentioned.

others can chime in about how they address it. I cant help you here too much; i ditched my lotus early on in favor of a dedicated track car that has a steel floor and steel bodywork and is a disposable car to me.

APK919, ACE10, EdHahn, to name a few off the top of my head always seem to have good input in this area.

if someone is not opting for a true race seat, and chooses to modify their stock seat to accomadate a harness ("as good enough for me approach"), i wouldnt take what their input is in this arena of safety is at all.

i hope that is helpful.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_git View Post
What about actually mounting the harness - most manufacturers seem to offer reinforcement plates but they seem to be steel.

The thread on the 6-pack from sector111 brings up a point as why this *could* be an issue on a lotus. Most vehicles you're attaching to steel - with the lotus it's aluminum - is galvanic corrosion a valid concern ?
I put in the sector 111 six pack and feel it is a better more secure solution for the seat rails. The stock design is very prone to thread stripping if you tend to remove your seats regularly. With regards to galvanic corrosion, it is a real phenomenon and should be watched. If there is moisture and an electrical charge present it will happen very quickly. It can be mitigated by using gaskets to separate the dissimilar metals.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Hopefully to make this thread more useful for future searchers I'll include relevant links I stumble across as I design my safety system.

Good discussion of the forces involved in an accident and safe belt installation :

Schroth Installation and Operating Instructions

This section stood out -

Quote:
What happens during a frontal impact:

This data is based on an optimised installation with an upright seating position during dynamic testing. It simulates a 90 head on collision, utilising a 75 kg [165 lb] mass dummy, an impact velocity of 50 kph [31 mph] and a stopping distance of approximately 400 mm [16”] with a maximum deceleration of 30 g [FIA Standard 8854/98 dynamic test requirements]:


I'm still trying to figure out the best way to mount the harness given the floor pan is aluminium - I may email Lotus.


Last edited by uncle_git; 09-11-2010 at 10:26 AM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 05:19 PM
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lotus has already weighed in on the matter. The cup cars have a race cage and are harness ready, at least on the drivers side (not sure passenger side). Can't remember the thread but somebody posted lotus installation instructions. For the drivers side, it amounts to putting two new holes for eye bolts, cutting the center console, and installing a little bar along the front of the seat for the sub belts. the eye bolts I believe are secured by small steel plates on the underside of the car.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-22-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishguy View Post
correct,
if the passenger is not using a HANS or defender ,then they should never be using 2" shoulder belts.
in this case i would go 3" shoulder belts for the passenger side, that way they can go with or w/o the HANS/defender.
What about the 3" --> 2" belts? Do those need to be used with a HANS at all times as well? These belts are 3" at the cam lock, but 2" where they contact the shoulder.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-22-2010, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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What about the 3" --> 2" belts? Do those need to be used with a HANS at all times as well? These belts are 3" at the cam lock, but 2" where they contact the shoulder.
All belt manufacturers say the 3"->2" belts are safe for HANS ONLY.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-24-2010, 08:06 AM
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So, I've done a few Elise / Exige harness installs and have gone through several different configurations and have ended up with the following for my purposes (or permutations thereof for other Elise / Exige I've worked on):

Reverie Mulsanne Cs

HANS

S111 DownLow* driver's side rails (I'm 6'2" w/ a 32" inseam)

Factory shoulder harness bar

Schroth HybridII HANS driver's side, pull up lap belts, fixed sub straps

Schroth HybridII passenger side, pull up lap belts, adjustable sub straps

Lap belts with either wrapped-in clip-in ends / buckles for use with eyebolts + backing plates or sewn-in Rally Brackets for use with bolts + backing plates.

Titanium Dave sub strap mounts (either his under seat solution or the 'revised' / bolt-through the front cross-member solution that is similar to, albeit not the same as, Lotus Sport's Exige Sport Cup mounting solution).

Seat rail cross members slotted to allow for the sub straps to pass through.

* note: I modded the DownLow rails to change the height and angles available outta the box. I really disliked it outta the box and now I love it / it's perfect for me.

I can still use the stock 3 point belts with this setup.

It is perfect? No. It is inexpensive? Ha! Hardly. It works for me though.

S111's Sys.6.Pack is an alternative for sub strap / pinch plate mounting, but if you've got the lap belts bolted to the chassis cross-member I don't personally feel it is a requirement.

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