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I am in the process of buying a stock Lotus Elise. As a bare minimum, what modifications should I make to safely track her and/or autocross from time to time? Looking for any and all input here.
We are not talking competition race here, just open track days (which I have done before in other cars) and trying my hand at autocross. I have read a lot of conflicting information in the search function as to what is truly necessary and what isn't.
So far, I have the bare minimum as:
1) Rear toe link upgrade or braced
2) Oil pan upgrade to Morosso baffled or similar
3) Racing harness bar / anti-sub install / 6 point belts
4) Proper tires
5) Track brake pads
flush some fresh high quality brake fluid in there and you're good to go with the rest of your list. Just make sure you check all the bolts as part of the routine as well.
What do you mean by "proper tires"? One thing about the stock suspension is that it is optimized for the stock AD07 tires. Once you start using stickier tires, you run the risk of riding on the bump stops and overwhelming the suspension. That being said, AD07 tires are pretty good for a street tire...I would give them a shot at the track if you are sticking with an otherwise stock Elise. Once you start going to stickier tires, then you need to upgrade the suspension accordingly.
With base suspension and AD07 tires, you might not need a baffled oil pan, though I will defer to the experts on this one. Ditto fuel starvation issue. You can literally drive a stock Elise onto the race track from the showroom floor and it will do pretty well.
To all of the above, I would probably also consider changing your battery. The stock battery can leak and you can easily save 10 .lbs by going to a lower capacity sealed unit. This is not totally necessary but is good for peace of mind. Consider getting the car aligned, make sure everything is tightened down, and have fun!
All the stuff listed only comes into play when you start really pushing the limits of the car. Until then, just keep the fuel tank more than 1/2 full and you'll be fine.
Of course you have hard data to prove that statement, right? You have logged fuel pressure, AFM and tank float position so you can make that statement?
I have, and my data shows a stock Elise / Exige on stock tires can show a lean condition starting with a full tank of fuel at the end of a 20 minute session.
If the engine cuts out due to a fuel starve issue it has gone way past a lean condition. It has run out of fuel to the engine. At that point it does not hurt the engine a bit. The part that kills an engine is when it starts running lean. getting some fuel just not enough. You most likely won’t feel that when you are driving the car. Well you won’t feel it until you melt down a piston.
I have heard this ½ tank folk lore way too much. It is point blank incorrect.
The reiterate, flush your brake fluid bleed them very carefully preferably with a Motive bleeder. The last track day in my Elise was fun until brake fade set in due to old fluid. Flushing and bleeding was something I always took for granted because the Elise has such a capable braking system.
How about calling Spring Mountain and asking them about what modifications they have done to the Elise/Exige they run there for the Lotus Performance Driving School...
IIRC, other than fluids, brake pads and other "consumables," they haven't changed anything on those cars.
KC Johnny ... are you in KC or NY? If KC you can have total peace of mind with the BOE's end link solution and get it installed at their shop located in KC. That's one that I couldn't justify not doing.
My car came with #1, #5 got put in because the stockers wore out. On #2, I just ordered the sector oil pan. You don't need the extra capacity of the moroso, and the "wings" get in the way.
Looking at graphs of oil pressure vs g forces, high g's the pressure drops precipitously even at high rpm's. Apparently this happens in sweepers, and quick left to right manouvers, like a slalom.
You don't need anything upgraded until you go to tires that can pull 1.2+ G's IMHO, if I weren't saving up for hoosiers I would have skipped the oil pan, its pricey.
I just spoke with Ricardo at Spring Mountain regarding the Lotus Performance Driving School Elises and he informed me that other than "consumables" there have been no modifications to their stock Elises. "These are just like you can buy at the dealer. They only thing we add is our stickers." He did recommend that if you are not checking your toe links after each track day, that you add the S111 brace, but even then their cars do not have the brace. They are just checked each day.
Huge data point there, thanks. You wonder if the issues others have experienced are inherent or just "bad apples."
From what they told you, this tips the scale toward “bad apples.” It's hard to call such a sample size of heavily tracked cars "anectodal evidence."
I’m a fan of both S111 and BOE. Researching each toe link solution, note that S111 recommends replacing their joint every 20ish(?) track days. BOE’s uses a much higher rated heim joint, and no replacement time period is req’d.
Lots of good input from above. Since the car is NA and the drivers is new to the car, the most important prep is yourself, IMO. This is a lot different than the Mazada 3! The car has snap oversteer in a millisecond by comparison, so you should really tip-toe into the corners. Understanding how to throttle oversteer and trail brake a mid/rear engine like this car is the toughest part about learning how to drive the elise but it's also the key to keeping the car out of the wall if you feel you're coming in "too hot"...
As others said, flush your brake fluid and replace with ATE or similar. Make sure your pads are in good shape. Short of the basics like tire pressure, your next step is a simple, but detailed, a full inspection of fixings about the car. Key check points are the toe-links, wheels, and uprights.
RE the toelinks. Remove the nuts and pull the links out a bit to expose the studs. Inspect the studs for any wear or deformation. If they look good, then reinstall and tq to 45lbft. Inspect these fasteners before each track event. As you get faster and more fully utilize a r comp tire like the 048 or 888, it will be a great idea to replace the links with something from the aftermarket.
While you're getting started, the oil pan and fuel starve issues are not at the top of the list, IMO. They're important, but you're not going to be pushing things that hard for a little while. Be sure the fuel is topped off before you go out and enjoy yourself... Again, you'll want to upgrade these parts as you start pushing the car, but the first sevral sessions out will be like trying to learn to drive all over again compared to the Mazada 3...
Again, go slow. These little things are nothing like front engine 4 door with wrong wheel drive...
Wow, didn't expect to get such spirited debate and feedback over this question, this is why I love this site!
Thank you one and all for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.
My handle of KCjohnny was created when I used to live in Kansas City MO. I did indeed meet up with Phil a couple of times during open track days at Heartland Park Raceway in Kansas, where I routinely drooled over the "Lotus Gang" Elises that frequented the track.
Had I bought an Elise when I was still living there, I would have had it in Phil's shop for sure! I need to change my hand to NYjohnny now LOL.
Speaking of....hey Phil, great to hear from you!
From all of the great advice here, I think the Elise "as is" will be more than enough for quite some time. I can't wait to let everyone know when the deal closes......
Yep, very educational, thanks for posting. Who knew a solvent like gas could work through glue??? An amazing discovery indeed. So I guess those baffles are just laying around / sloshing back and forth wild and free inside our tanks.
U're a pile of glacial debris? Take no offense, I'll just assume u're on a higher plane of existence than I ;-)
So, I was wondering, with all that epoxy crud floating around, I could check the fuel filter to see if some had accumulated there, then good chance for fuel starve, if not, then my tank might be okay. U agree?
There's a sock on the fuel pump that keeps the big stuff out and another in-tank filter for the really little stuff--- there's not a real easy way to check the condition of the tank, since pulling the fuel pump is required to see the filter/sock... I've got a basic tutorial on how to R&R the fuel pump on my website. It's a pretty difficult task on the 2005s due to an extremely tight fit of the pump/filter cartridge. Easier on the 06+ cars. Requires sheet metal cutting in both cases though...
It takes a relatively experienced track driver on decent tires to starve the car of fuel provided the tank is reasonably full, FWIW... I contend that it would be near impossible to starve the car for fuel on the street, as the turns just don't last long enough, traction is poor, it's illegal to drive that hard, etc...
That said, if you ever decide you need a fuel starve solution, I can hook up you up with our system next time you're in town or Ralph can modify your tank...
Sorry... Let me rephrase...You can get a modified fuel tank via Sector111... Both Mine and his (ralph via S111) solutions cost about the same and have their pros and cons. Both require labor. Hard to say which is easier... Both will take care of a fuel starve problem though...
Sorry... Let me rephrase...You can get a modified fuel tank via Sector111... Both Mine and his (ralph via S111) solutions cost about the same and have their pros and cons. Both require labor. Hard to say which is easier... Both will take care of a fuel starve problem though...
Phil, when I had your surge tank on my car (and I'm probably going to put it back on), the one downside was that I had to get used to smelling gasoline pretty much every time I started the car. Is this common with a proper installation? (I hope that i'm not hijacking the thread....)
on the fuel starve issue, I was under the understanding that is only an issue on the blown cars and on the NA cars there are no ill effects other than losing speed.
What say you, Elise experts?
I had it happen once at buttonwillow on a 1/2 tank of gas. I did not pick up what was happening because it happened fast but my instructor definitely noticed it and asked if the car had a fuel starve issue.
after that happened I am pretty diligent about fueling up often on track days.
It takes a bit longer for the damage to acure on a NA car then on a FI car. But it still will cause damage. Way lean is bad for any motor under full power.
Good stuff! Liking the c-techs on the big tracks a LOT. Real easy on rotors and nice modulation. No Fade. No excessive build up. On the tight twisty Hallett course, they were not the absolute best, but I certainly got by OK... The old ST-43s are probably a bit better there or perhaps a bit more aggressive C-tech...
so Phil, how hard is your swirl pot to install????
inquiring minds want to know. It looks easier than removing the entire tank, but maybe not.
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