Bare minimum track mods for Stock Elise? - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 07:47 PM
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Hey Phill, How are thoes pads working out for you?

Ralph Provitz
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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 07:55 PM
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Good stuff! Liking the c-techs on the big tracks a LOT. Real easy on rotors and nice modulation. No Fade. No excessive build up. On the tight twisty Hallett course, they were not the absolute best, but I certainly got by OK... The old ST-43s are probably a bit better there or perhaps a bit more aggressive C-tech...

Thanks,

Phil


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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 08:32 PM
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thanks ralph & phil

so Phil, how hard is your swirl pot to install????

inquiring minds want to know. It looks easier than removing the entire tank, but maybe not.

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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 08:47 PM
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You know, it depends on the person. It's probably easier than pulling the tank, but that's subjective and again- depends on the installer...

It's an afternoon for many... Hate to sound self serving on this bit, but with a clam hinge, I can install one in about an hour at an easy pace... Without a clamhinge, you've got to take both rear wheels off and spend some time up in the wheel arches... It's not hard by any stretch of the imagination, but it's annoying working under our cars (that's the case for the fuel tank too really)... The hardest part is the return line tapping into the filler neck. You have to take the rubber pipe off and it can require triple jointed appendages to do that

I've been building these for a while now. Andrew and I figured out that there are a little over 100 of them out there now with no problems or recalls to report... it's amazing how much time I've spent welding aluminum.lol... The part does allow for a lot of flexibility and expandability for future upgrades and several of the more savvy users have used it to dial in their open loop AFRs on their forced induction tunes that may have been otherwise uncomfortably lean...

That said, Ralph's solution is very "OEM" looking and does a good job as well...

I think both "Fixes" have their place

-PV


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 10:02 PM
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Who pissed in your cereal? I'm talking more about the fact that people are just not fast enough in the beginning to push the car to the point where any of the real issues become issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38bfast View Post
Of course you have hard data to prove that statement, right? You have logged fuel pressure, AFM and tank float position so you can make that statement?

I have, and my data shows a stock Elise / Exige on stock tires can show a lean condition starting with a full tank of fuel at the end of a 20 minute session.

If the engine cuts out due to a fuel starve issue it has gone way past a lean condition. It has run out of fuel to the engine. At that point it does not hurt the engine a bit. The part that kills an engine is when it starts running lean. getting some fuel just not enough. You most likely wonít feel that when you are driving the car. Well you wonít feel it until you melt down a piston.

I have heard this Ĺ tank folk lore way too much. It is point blank incorrect.

Ok off my soap box.
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post #46 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 06:34 AM
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This has been a productive conversation, so let’s keep that going.

I think we’ve heard pretty solid arguments that yes, a highly skilled driver can fuel starve a car, and also that for most track day “civilians” this isn’t as much an issue. However, to that general statement, we have to factor in the length / g force of the left turns on a specific track and sticky tires since that will add to the g’s.

Especially good to know the car's power will fade when starts / is going lean.
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post #47 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 09:43 AM
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OK I am convinced that a V2 tank or BOE Surge Tank from one of these fine vendors needs to be on my to do list.

I am getting more track days in my 05 Elise. Also this year have added a Katana SC, Nitron Doubles and soon R6 sticky tires. I guess itís time to add a solution to the fuel starves potential issue, as it is becoming more probable with my upgrades and growing track skill this could become an issue.

Has anyone contacted Lotus on this? I could understand the issue in 2005-2006-7 cars. But I would have thought since these cars are built with track days in mind the newer models would be welded not epoxy by now?
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post #48 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 09:56 AM
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I've got a gpan on the way should be here today!

Installing it tomorrow and filling it with fresh fresh Motul 5w40

2007 Exige S, LSD - Sold
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post #49 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glacialmoraine View Post
I've got a gpan on the way should be here today!

Installing it tomorrow and filling it with fresh fresh Motul 5w40
Congrats. That's what I'm getting with my next bonu$. Holler in afterwards how it goes.
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post #50 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-22-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Sam View Post

Stock pads work.
Agreed. I've done about 10 track days and never felt the need for a pad upgrade.

Former owner of the great car in my avatar, now with a great new owner: 2006 Elise BRG sport, steel brake lines, RTDbrace, hardtop, black powder-coated wheels, Katana (finally working!), Moroso pan, BOE fuel kit, boost & oil pressure gauges, Blackwatch gauge bracket, Tillet seats, Schroth 6-points, Braille, Xtender, Dunlop Star Spec 205/50, 235/45 street , Rotas w/R888s track
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post #51 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-22-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbophil View Post
Sorry... Let me rephrase...You can get a modified fuel tank via Sector111... Both Mine and his (ralph via S111) solutions cost about the same and have their pros and cons. Both require labor. Hard to say which is easier... Both will take care of a fuel starve problem though...

Cheers,

Phil

PS- A link to the LT thread on our surge tank is in my footer and more info here :BOEFabrication.com | Beyond Original Equipment... Welcome to Sector 111, home of Lotus Elise Aftermarket Performance Parts and Exhaust Accessories. has info on the V2 fuel tank mod...
Phil, when I had your surge tank on my car (and I'm probably going to put it back on), the one downside was that I had to get used to smelling gasoline pretty much every time I started the car. Is this common with a proper installation? (I hope that i'm not hijacking the thread....)

Former owner of the great car in my avatar, now with a great new owner: 2006 Elise BRG sport, steel brake lines, RTDbrace, hardtop, black powder-coated wheels, Katana (finally working!), Moroso pan, BOE fuel kit, boost & oil pressure gauges, Blackwatch gauge bracket, Tillet seats, Schroth 6-points, Braille, Xtender, Dunlop Star Spec 205/50, 235/45 street , Rotas w/R888s track
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post #52 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 07:35 AM
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OK, Sector gpan is in.

Big disappointment: All fasteners (other than oil pan bolts) are imperial. Drain plug, etc. I HATE that, why corrupt an otherwise metric car with that idiocy. I know, sector probably had Moroso make it, and that is the way they do it, but it still bugs me.

Other than imperial hardware requiring me to go buy new tools, the intstall was easy, no problems taking the old pan off. Let the car sit a while, so the new pan went onto a dry surface. Seems like a quality piece of kit. I used toyota FIPG (form in place gasket) for sealing it on, that stuff looks like it will seal very well. Highly recommended by me.

My car came with a toe link which seems strong enough to me, so all i have left is fuel starvation and I am good to go.

gm

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post #53 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glacialmoraine View Post
OK, Sector gpan is in.

Big disappointment: All fasteners (other than oil pan bolts) are imperial. Drain plug, etc. I HATE that, why corrupt an otherwise metric car with that idiocy. I know, sector probably had Moroso make it, and that is the way they do it, but it still bugs me.

Other than imperial hardware requiring me to go buy new tools, the intstall was easy, no problems taking the old pan off. Let the car sit a while, so the new pan went onto a dry surface. Seems like a quality piece of kit. I used toyota FIPG (form in place gasket) for sealing it on, that stuff looks like it will seal very well. Highly recommended by me.

My car came with a toe link which seems strong enough to me, so all i have left is fuel starvation and I am good to go.

gm
You are heading down the right road.

One thing we all have in common is to enjoy our cars. The key to being able to enjoy them is to keep them reliable and safe. As many can atest it is not enjoyable when our cars fail.

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D Sports Racer S08
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post #54 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viacondotti View Post
Phil, when I had your surge tank on my car (and I'm probably going to put it back on), the one downside was that I had to get used to smelling gasoline pretty much every time I started the car. Is this common with a proper installation? (I hope that i'm not hijacking the thread....)
No sir, it is not... The system is pressure tested for 12 hours minimum and 100% sealed... The only reason you would smell gas is if there's gas... Possible that you had some fumes escaping via the charcoal canister system (or lack thereof?) or the fuel filler cap... I recall your car had some issue and I can't remember what it was that was causing a MIL... Perhaps it was related???

In any event, no fuel smell should emit...

Best,

Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


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post #55 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glacialmoraine View Post
OK, Sector gpan is in.

Big disappointment: All fasteners (other than oil pan bolts) are imperial. Drain plug, etc. I HATE that, why corrupt an otherwise metric car with that idiocy. I know, sector probably had Moroso make it, and that is the way they do it, but it still bugs me.

Other than imperial hardware requiring me to go buy new tools, the intstall was easy, no problems taking the old pan off. Let the car sit a while, so the new pan went onto a dry surface. Seems like a quality piece of kit. I used toyota FIPG (form in place gasket) for sealing it on, that stuff looks like it will seal very well. Highly recommended by me.

My car came with a toe link which seems strong enough to me, so all i have left is fuel starvation and I am good to go.

gm
Congrats on the install, glad it went well. A little birdie told me the GPan used the Moroso as a starting point, added improvements, then spec'd out the production. I agree is really odd on the English bolts. What toe link does your car use? Fuel starve wise, luckily there's a gas station right at the track, but I do plan to get a 5 gal can and keep top'd off, fill up car and can at lunch, then that'll get me through the day. Maybe we don't need this, but it's a minor inconvenience for peace of mind.
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post #56 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 06:39 AM
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Stock 2007 exige, base model came with a tie link that connects left to right, doesn't connect to the chassis. that is it. It makes it strong enough that the dreaded ball joint breakage isn't an issue IMHO. Similar to ssc , sector111 rtvbrace, and other links, its not an unheard of solution.

2007 Exige S, LSD - Sold
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post #57 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for making this a very informative and useful thread
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post #58 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 07:50 AM
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The lotus crossbrace is only $76.61! that looks like the way to go for the budget toe link brace! part number B120d0040f

Lotus Garage - Rear Suspension, Incl. Hubs - Part number 40

you would also need two bolts (45), two spacers (42), and two rod ends (46). the lotus price on the rod ends is ridiculous! Anyone have an alternate source, mine are getting a bit worn I think. I think we could find cheaper spacers too.

Steve

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