Harness options for a lightly tracked car - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2011, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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They're OEM seats from Lotus Sport, but they've never been inside an Exige, so they're not "exige seats" :-). I got them here, but they're freaking expensive.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2011, 05:18 PM
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Your plan is very similar to what I did. Cutting the seats for the 6 points is easy and safe(r).

Seats and harness choices

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You will love how much more control you have when you don't have to brace yourself with your knees to stay in the seat.

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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2011, 05:54 PM
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Following the safety discussion, I have a question.
Have a '10 Exige S240 with 6 point Scroth harnesses (dealer installed). The seats are not cut and I do not have a HANS. For DE and CA Freeway driving does this seem reasonable?
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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2011, 05:58 PM
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I could be wrong but I'd get a HANS. The physics of hitting a wall is the same if you're in a DE or a race, a guy who hits the track once per year or 100 times per year. Unless you've pulled the airbags out I'd be most comfortable that all of me is as tethered as possible out on the track, head included.

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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
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Following the safety discussion, I have a question.
Have a '10 Exige S240 with 6 point Scroth harnesses (dealer installed). The seats are not cut and I do not have a HANS. For DE and CA Freeway driving does this seem reasonable?
Do you still have the stock 3-point belts installed? If so I'd use those while on the street and switch to the 6-points at the track. Also how are your sub belts routed?

The point of HANS is to save your neck (literally) in the case of an impact with a very large object that stops the car very quickly. Your harness will keep your body securely attached to the car, however your head will whip forwards (or to the side) with enough force to cause serious/fatal injury.

Some people argue that for DE/Time Trial events with adequate run off etc that the risk of that kind of impact is low so why not gamble w/o a HANS. On the street, that's pretty much the only kind of impact you will encounter

HTH.

-chris

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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 10:48 AM
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The Exige still has the original 3 pt. and air bags.
Photo of 6 pt. below.
I realize that the anti-sub routing is far from optimal, but think it is better than no anti-sub belt at all. Am I wrong?
I understand that a HAN is best, but don't understand why a 6 pt. would be less safe than a 3 pt.
I also get that having a body restrained but a head loose is not good. But, the 3 pt. has the same failing (and others).
Knowledgeable explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 11:01 AM
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Some people argue that for DE/Time Trial events with adequate run off etc that the risk of that kind of impact is low so why not gamble w/o a HANS. On the street, that's pretty much the only kind of impact you will encounter
I think that is a good point.

And to DanS - A HANS is certainly safer but I think driving DE's and CA hwys without a HANS is entirely reasonable.

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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
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Dan, I think you are going to get a load of crap about the sub belts. The last Schroth guidance I have read showed that is acceptable routing but not sure if that has changed in the last year or so. Just take note, the purpose of sub belts is not to keep your body from sliding out from under the belts but to keep the harness belts from pulling the lap belts off your pelvis. Be confident that no matter how tight you pull your harness belts, the subs do not let the lap belts off your pelvis bones. I set sub straps so the lap belts feel like they are cutting into the tops of my legs at the start of the session. Passing this along to give you some info and temper the "you are going to die" posts that might be getting typed up right now. Hope this helps.

Last edited by mOlson; 04-08-2011 at 11:13 AM. Reason: wording
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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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Incorrect. With a 3pt on your air bag will be there to help your torso/head pass the energy of the collision. With a 6pt there is nothing to help your head pass the energy of the collision.



Quote:
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I also get that having a body restrained but a head loose is not good. But, the 3 pt. has the same failing (and others).
Thanks,
Dan

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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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The 4-pt ASM seems to have that same property as well, your inboard shoulder isn't restrained in a collision as the folded/stitched flap rips open, so you're effectively in a 3-pt harness. I think that with two rigid shoulder belts, someone would be crazy not to use a HANS, especially with the weight of a helmet on your head.
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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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The 4pt works that way to help keep you from submarining. I agree that from a safety standpoint seems like 4pt ASM = 3pt

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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 12:50 PM
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Dan, I think you are going to get a load of crap about the sub belts. The last Schroth guidance I have read showed that is acceptable routing but not sure if that has changed in the last year or so.
I don't want to crap on Dan or be a safety Nazi, I just want to make sure he is informed.

In the latest Schroth install notes (here) it says "Sub-strap must not be routed around the front of the seat".

I'm sure there are a people that would find my harness setup horrifying but I've done my research and have come to peace with my decision. I think everyone should do the same.

-chris

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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 12:55 PM
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They continuously make safety improvements. That said, I'm generally comfortable with 5 year old standards. Hell, the Vintage Spyder is short on crumple zones, air bags, side intrusion protection, etc., etc.
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 01:43 PM
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dan,
do NOT use that harness how you have it installed.
educate yourself when you make safety modifications to your car.
there is alot of info here on this subject.
IMO what you have is more dangerous than using the stock 3 point set up, not safer.
also, if you are running with a harness such as you have after you have it correctly installed, you really should use a H+N device as well.

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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 05:02 PM
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... but I've done my research and have come to peace with my decision. I think everyone should do the same.-chris
I think this guy summed up with the best bit of advice. You have Schroth harnesses and I have found Schroth/HMS to be very supportive in answering many rather not so simple questions. They should help you along in reaching your peace.

With respect to HANS or not, a HANS does little in anything less than a straight on collision. Point being, so you get your HANS then someone points out you have no upper torso support for side impact then no hand restraints in an open top car then... Getting the idea? Circle back to the quote up above.
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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 05:55 PM
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I'm thinking, for short street drives: 3 pt. stock setup.
For long freeway drives: Harness (no helmet, etc.).
For occasional DE days, with open face SM2005 helmet: I don't know.
Dan
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 06:15 PM
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Once you ride with a full (6 pt) harness, helmet, neck protector and cage, you will never feel right again without the system. Geez, mechanical failure, fluid from another car, so many things can (and do) present opportunity to test it all. Plus it's just more fun if you feel a bit more free to play.
The best info comes from people who have "tested" the system for real. Look for a car with the front end mashed in, and there usually is at least one at most track days, and talk to the guy.

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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 06:57 PM
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... The last Schroth guidance I have read showed that is acceptable routing but not sure if that has changed in the last year or so. Just take note, the purpose of sub belts is not to keep your body from sliding out from under the belts but to keep the harness belts from pulling the lap belts off your pelvis.
The last three editions of the Schroth guide prohibit running sub straps this way. I seriously doubt this was ever approved.
(The current Sabelt guide says the same, and the one from three years ago). We know these guys are the experts. Why even consider doing the opposite of what they prescribe?

That description of the purpose of the straps is spot-on. But to do that job, they must be installed right. If you've seen those horrible pictures of "de-gloving" injuries and wondered what caused them, this is it.

The good news is, it's an easy fix. Just toss out the sub straps and switch to ASM shoulder belts.

In theory, there is no difference between Theory and Practice. In practice, there is. - Y. Berra

Last edited by luxige; 04-08-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 07:03 PM
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Sounds like the stock 3 pt and airbags may be safer than add-ons, unless you go all the way.
I'm surprised!
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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 07:24 PM
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Dan, I think that's true for the street.

4 Point ASMs are good on track, but are not designed to work with a neck device.
6 points are even better, but the installation must be right. IMO, you'd really want the neck device then.

In theory, there is no difference between Theory and Practice. In practice, there is. - Y. Berra

Last edited by luxige; 04-08-2011 at 07:30 PM.
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