How does the anti sub belt mount on a cup car? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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How does the anti sub belt mount on a cup car?

I ordered the parts from a cup car to mount it. any pics available?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 04:26 PM
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I donít have a pic but on a serious track car the harnesses all mount to the floor, with braces under the floor, and never to the seat.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 05:13 PM
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A bit to read but fishguy gives a definitive argument about all that

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100/fit-caged-66436/

Post #28 shows a proper setup

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
2011 Evora S Racing Heritage Edition (#3 of 4) (Now with alexsharkeyross)
2005 Elise LRG, track prepped ,
1974 Lotus Europa Special 3841R in JPS livery
2007 Toyota Tundra (about 10 cup holders), traded for 2015 Tundra TRD PRO
2007 Audi S4 DTM (RIP) 1980 Rover SD1 (new home) 2015 Honda Civic Si
2016 370Z Nismo
2013 Bentley Continental GT Speed 2019 Lexus LC500
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XHILR8N! View Post
A bit to read but fishguy gives a definitive argument about all that

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100/fit-caged-66436/

Post #28 shows a proper setup
Post 28 show the way you install sub belts for a formula car where you lay on the belts, NOT any approved way for sedan. Go to post 40 and there is a Louts PDF attachment that show the factory attachments.

I make a bar that travels with the seat, it's a compromise between the correct belt angles and fastening to the floor. The correct angle of the sub belt is maintained though out the travel of the seat rail. The best route is to have a fixed seat location and the correct location for either a 5th OR 6th sub belt. They are different locations now, used to be the same when these brackets were designed. I still use them for both 5 and 6 point subs and feel comfortable as long as the lap belts are secured to the floor. The sub belt is designed to keep the lap belt on your pelvis so in the event of a roll over, the lap belt can NOT slide above the pelvis bone causing internal damage to organs.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 05:47 PM
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I agree, have your bar on my car now. It seemed reasonable to me and that thread says why.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
2011 Evora S Racing Heritage Edition (#3 of 4) (Now with alexsharkeyross)
2005 Elise LRG, track prepped ,
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, that thread was extremely helpful! so I need a 6 point with straps for the antisub and the shoulders and clips for the lap? do you recommend the eyebolts for the lap?
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-25-2018, 05:06 AM
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Post 28 show the way you install sub belts for a formula car where you lay on the belts, NOT any approved way for sedan. Go to post 40 and there is a Louts PDF attachment that show the factory attachments.

I make a bar that travels with the seat, it's a compromise between the correct belt angles and fastening to the floor. The correct angle of the sub belt is maintained though out the travel of the seat rail. The best route is to have a fixed seat location and the correct location for either a 5th OR 6th sub belt. They are different locations now, used to be the same when these brackets were designed. I still use them for both 5 and 6 point subs and feel comfortable as long as the lap belts are secured to the floor. The sub belt is designed to keep the lap belt on your pelvis so in the event of a roll over, the lap belt can NOT slide above the pelvis bone causing internal damage to organs.
This is a great summary. I work for a company that consults and does high-rate structural analyses. There is a vehicle we are looking at now for a customer that breaks nearly every rule - 4 point harnesses with shoulder belts supported by the seatback and routed vertically down to the same bolt as the lap belts. God, it is horrible. I'm not an engineer on that project, but I am helping out due to my experience with cars and racing. I pointed the other engineer to some FIA documents on harness routing, and that's now driving many of his suggestions to the customer.

Looking at how the Lotus seat is mounted and all, I feel perfectly comfortable with my 5th point I bought from you a couple years ago. I agree, the sub belt is never intended to hold you in place like a 6th point - it is only there to keep the buckle located low down. For that, the bar mounted to a seat that is then directly mounted to the chassis is of no concern at all.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-25-2018, 06:54 AM
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Thanks for the replies, that thread was extremely helpful! so I need a 6 point with straps for the antisub and the shoulders and clips for the lap? do you recommend the eyebolts for the lap?
What most people do not understand is that there is a significant difference between attaching seat belts to the seat and attaching to the seat FRAME. The seat is not designed to withstand dynamic loads (read that as crash testing). So if any seat belt is attached to the seat itself, that is an unsafe setup...stay away from those.

The OEM belts attach to the seat FRAME and very close to the 4 mounting screws that attach the seat frame to the chassis. That configuration has been dynamically tested and approved by all of the appropriate government agencies around the world. The lap belts are attached to the rear of the seat frame right near the rear mounting hard points...within 1-inch. Only those 4 mounting points are OEM engineered for that kind of loading. Only the 4 screws that attach the seat frame to the chassis are acceptable locations for mounting seat belts. The attaching system shown mounting the 5th and 6th points under the seat between the middle of the seat frame and the seat do match any of the criteria stated above.

Any system that only attach to the floor pan is not a good idea. That floor pan in the Lotus is made from recycled aluminum. Beer cans are made from a better quality aluminum than the floor pan. The other problem with mounting through the floor pan is that it ruins the aerodynamics of the floor. That floor is a significant aerodynamic "device" on that car. Don't ruin it by adding "vortex generators" (anything that protrudes) onto the under side of your floor pan.

The 2-Eleven came with a very elegant attachment point for the 5th and 6th belts. Use that.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 02:35 AM
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no dude, nothing available.
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