Safety Equipment Thread - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 06:44 PM
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Requested Pictures

Will post the requested pictures, pictures of a PB Racing carbon fiber wing and fiberglass splitter I am installing next week and some other easy Elise track mods you can do in your shop.

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post #22 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 01:15 AM
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Pics Please ...

Can you please post pics from the race seat inserts?
Where did you get them?

Matthias

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post #23 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-02-2005, 06:05 PM
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Harness inserts

The Harness inserts are Corbeau. They are available in black composite or chrome. I will post pics when the car returns from the shop. CF wing installed today and splitter to be installed tomorrow.

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post #24 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 11:14 AM
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Elise PB racing splitter and powder coated Wilkins motorsports tow hook

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post #25 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 11:24 AM
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Pictures of safety and performance additions to my track Elise

Here are pictures of some things I have added to my ardent red Elise for safety and performance on the track. Battery kill switch, Fire extinguisher, Pirelli floormats, Harness inserts in Lotus seats, PB Racing CF wing
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Last edited by lucien; 08-07-2005 at 11:27 AM.
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post #26 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 11:32 AM
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Wilkins Motorsports Powder Coated Tow Hook, close up

Two inch diameter tow hook to accommodate tow straps on safety vehicles at most road courses. Standard Lotus Elise tow hook is too small
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post #27 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 12:05 PM
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Harnes slots

Where did you get the black harnes slots? Corbeau only shows chrome.

Thanks,

Dan
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post #28 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 12:36 PM
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Harness slots for Elise seats, black

3SXPerformance.com will get them in black from Corbeau for you. If you can't get them, I have a spare set.

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post #29 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
3SXPerformance.com will get them in black from Corbeau for you. If you can't get them, I have a spare set.
Were these hard to install? Is this a DIY?

thanks

All your mods look great!
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post #30 of 148 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 02:45 PM
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Harness inserts

It probably is a DIY, however I had the trim shop do it. Select the right installation location, avoid the thickest part of the seat back, don't cut too much leather out, and use sharp cutting tools. Inserts do not require any screws to hold them in place. Harnesses will fit your shoulders much better.
I'm working on a helmet hook for the targa, installing a smaller/lighter battery used in Nextel Cup cars with the same CCA rating as the base Elise battery that uses the base Elise battery hold down system, and a racing radio box installation with a push-to talk-button not located on the steering wheel. All three projects are DIY's.
Pics of this week's performance/safety envelope additions were taken today. More performance mods coming.
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Last edited by lucien; 08-08-2005 at 03:07 AM.
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post #31 of 148 (permalink) Old 09-23-2005, 08:25 AM
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Can anyone suggest a good driving glove for the track? Online retailer to buy them from? Something very comfortable and with minimal palm padding. I'm guessing what you are paying for is fire protection, because a pair of $30 receiver's gloves would have as much grip.

- J

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
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post #32 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-04-2005, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless
Some of you asked for pics of my 6 point sub-belt installation. Note, we had to make the hole in the ReVerie seat bigger; theirs is just big enough for a 5 point sub-belt. We used eye-bolts through the floor with backing plates on the bottom/outside of the floor. The location was chosen by following the directions from Schroth, found here: http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Co...structions.pdf
Sleepless...

I was thinking a few things... even though this post is really old...

a. Did you keep the sub strap adjusters above the seat? I thought all such hardware was supposed to go "outside" the seat since in an accident hard objects will cause accidents. Said is certainly true for the adjusters on the shoulder straps so I imagine it applies to crotch straps...

b. Did you think about/know that the floor pan in the elise isn't really structural and spreaders won't really do much for you in an accident since the pan will likely still buckle? At least, according to lots of posts on here...

c. How did you make the slot wider on the Reverie? Dremel?

d. Is the waist strap "over" the top of the seat edges (IE, do you have waist strap holes in your Reveries)?

e. How are the harnesses holding up?

f. Did you UV coat/laquer/paint your Reverie seats at all or leave them as is? Do you see much sun with them? Any yellowing/etc?

g. Did you use any kind of subframe conversion kit to adapt the atock rails to the new seat? Or did you just add a crutch strap support and that's it? Or perhaps you didn't even add one?


Thanks!!
Psycho
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post #33 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-04-2005, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoRallye
Sleepless...

I was thinking a few things... even though this post is really old...
I would hope this thread is a never "old"

Quote:
a. Did you keep the sub strap adjusters above the seat? I thought all such hardware was supposed to go "outside" the seat since in an accident hard objects will cause accidents. Said is certainly true for the adjusters on the shoulder straps so I imagine it applies to crotch straps...
I'm not sure if it possible to have the adjusters on a 6 point harness to be below the holes; they are somewhat ment to be adjusted on each use; like the other straps... I must say I really like the 6 points a lot better than 5 points...

Quote:
b. Did you think about/know that the floor pan in the elise isn't really structural and spreaders won't really do much for you in an accident since the pan will likely still buckle? At least, according to lots of posts on here...
Indeed, we have thought about and redid the sub-belt anchorage... see attached pic. We now have in place a bolted in plate the spans the width of the car.

Quote:
c. How did you make the slot wider on the Reverie? Dremel?
Can't says since Cantrell Motorsports did it and I wasn't there to watch.

Quote:
d. Is the waist strap "over" the top of the seat edges (IE, do you have waist strap holes in your Reveries)?
The straps are over the top of the seat edges because the Reveries have low sides; a little higher than stock.

Quote:
e. How are the harnesses holding up?
Great... no problems.

Quote:
f. Did you UV coat/laquer/paint your Reverie seats at all or leave them as is? Do you see much sun with them? Any yellowing/etc?
No coating. Not much sun. But, there is some minor yellowing.

Quote:
g. Did you use any kind of subframe conversion kit to adapt the atock rails to the new seat? Or did you just add a crutch strap support and that's it? Or perhaps you didn't even add one?
That was a long time ago, but I recall we had to redo the front of the stock seat frame to clear the seats properly. I think Sector111 now offers the proper parts.

Quote:
Thanks!!
Psycho
You are welcome. Nice to see people taking safety seriously
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post #34 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-08-2005, 03:53 PM
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Looking for grip tape for floor

Pete, in this pic on your Elise page

there are some black patches on the floor which I'm figuring are some sort of sticky back grip tape.
I'm trying to find something like this since the floor is a bit slipery when track driving without the carpets.
Do you knew where I could get this stuff on the Eastside or Seattle. I have not called Cantrell yet.
Also, did you take out the sound deadoning patches from the floor before adding the grip pads?

Thanks,
Chris

Last edited by cjm; 10-08-2005 at 03:56 PM.
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post #35 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-08-2005, 04:21 PM
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Yes, those are your basic non-slip tape strips typically used on steps or boat decks. You can get it in 3" wide rolls at Home Depot or Lowe's.

Yes, I removed the sound deadening squares; if you heat them with a hair dryer they peel off easily; you'll be amazed at how much they weigh!

Pete
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post #36 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-08-2005, 05:42 PM
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A group of us in my P-car club have purchased and are using the R3 head and neck device. We chose it over the HANS because it seems like it will give some support for instructors even with 3 point belts or in the absence of properly set up harnesses. Fortunately, no one has yet tested the device in action. It is a bit of a pain to get used to the limitation in motion and I find that the clips on the tethers sometimes bind but I intend to persevere.
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post #37 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-09-2005, 03:20 PM
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Sleepless-

Thanks for the info, I was most worried about your crotch strap setup. I've been wondering where to put my crotch straps (I am putting in 6pts) -- I was thinking right to the same points as the lap belt since the bar up front near the slot in the seat will only route the belts back... even though I know the "optimal" location for the crotch straps is between 0 and 20 degrees back from the slot in the seat... I suppose alternatively I could simply wrap them on the sub strap bar and that's that... no bolting... is this an acceptable practice?

Anyone, comments?

Cheers
Psycho
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post #38 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-16-2005, 11:11 PM
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Question on neck collars:
I understand that one purpose is to protect the collar bone from being broken by the helmet when your helmet lunges forward. What about your head snapping back? Just bought a neck collar that seems pretty good if my head rocks forward but isn't thick enough in the back to do anything. Are these collars intended to reduce backward movement at all or just forward?

Granted a neck collar isn't quite a HANS device, but it's something for karting or when you're not using a harness. I don't expect it to help all that much and perhaps it's more of a comfort thing for some.

- J

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
'16 Porsche Cayman GT4

Last edited by Vantage; 12-16-2005 at 11:41 PM.
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post #39 of 148 (permalink) Old 04-21-2006, 08:35 AM
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Given that the Elise is, for me, primarily a track-toy, modifying it to accept a harness that’s compatible with my HANS device and adding a fire extinguisher were high on my agenda when I bought the car in March. In doing so, however, I wished to keep the stock seat (it fits me well, and I like it) and the stock three-point belt. I thought I’d share what I’ve done, if only to inform the debate about these issues. If I’ve followed a different path than others on the boards, it’s only b/c it felt right to me. I don’t claim to have any real expertise on automotive/racing safety, although I have gone through this exercise before and I did solicit a lot of advice and read carefully all the materials that came with both the HANS and the harness. Several members of the community -- including especially Stan, Sleepless (and his shop, Cantrell Motorsports), Jack, Arno, Brad S., and Lucien -- were generous with their time/advice and deserve a public note of thanks. I also got some useful advice from Lotus Motorsports in the form of both telephone calls and the opportunity to review their installation instructions for their six-point harness and competition seat.

Fire Extinguisher:

I broke down and bought the Sector111 Halon extinguisher, just because it is the coolest looking fire extinguisher on the planet, and I like the look and feel of the mount and the mounting location.



Harness:

I bought a Schroth Profi II -- HANS six-point harness from HMS Motorsports. While I believe in supporting our sponsors, I’ve long felt that HMS is one of the best suppliers of safety gear to racers/trackers, and they were very helpful in terms of providing technical advice during the installation.

There seems to be a growing consensus surrounding the merits of using a 2” lap-belt (it sits better on the pelvis and can be tightened further than a 3” belt) and HANS recommends the use of 2” shoulder-belts because they tend to sit better on the yoke of the device. Schroth uses a webbing material that stretches less for this particular harness than it uses for its non-HANS compliant harnesses.

Based on Schroth’s literature, I did not buy and would discourage anyone from using a sternum strap to keep their harnesses from spreading. This seems best addressed by (i) preventing the shoulder-straps from spreading on the bar (for this, I used a 5” canvas climbing loop from REI), (ii) routing the harness through appropriately placed holes in the seat, and (iii) complying with the routing, strap-lengths, and geometry recommendations from your harness manufacturer.

Harness Bar and Shoulder-Straps:

I bought the Sector111 4Tress bar. It seems well designed and solid. I like the fact that it attaches using stock threaded holes in the rollbar and (unlike the last rollbar I installed) didn’t require hacking up my interior. I like the fact that the bar sits only 8” away from the top of the HANS yoke when I’m in the car, which is about as good as you can do with an adjustable seat. What I don’t like is the fact that the bar sits higher than my shoulders, so my shoulder-belts slope downward (by about 10 degrees) from the bar to the top of the HANS. This is not ideal (ideal would be horizontal) but the good folks at HMS assured me that the slope is mild enough to be acceptable.



Lap Straps:

I wasn’t comfortable using the stock seatbelt mounts for my lap-belts b/c (i) that requires the mounts to support the stock belts AND my aftermarket harness and (ii) it results in the entire load placed on the sub-straps and lap-straps being transferred through the seat-rail to threaded fittings that attach with relatively small M8 bolts. While this is undoubtedly fine for street use (who am I to second guess Lotus?), I felt more comfortable using 7/16th inch UNF bolts mounted through the aluminum cross-chassis member that the stock seat-rails bolt to. This is a c-shaped beam with vertical members both fore and aft, and I liked the fact that it abuts (and seems bonded to) a major chassis member, so any load applied to it will be solidly transferred into the chassis.

This is the exact approach taken by Lotus Motorsports according to their instructions for their competition seat. The bolts are supported under the car by backing plates that are glued and riveted to the bottom of the chassis. The mounts are roughly 16” apart (which is ideal according to Schroth). What I don’t like about this is that (i) the downward angle of the belts to the floor is only 50 degrees (the ideal angle is 60 degrees according to Schroth, but that cannot be supported by the aluminum skin of the sheer-panel that forms the floor) and (ii) the mounts are assymetrical -- the right-hand bolt is located just to the left of the seat-rail (i.e., between the two seat-rails), whereas the left-hand bolt is located just to the left of the seat-rail between the rail and the chassis-beam that runs down the outside of the car (i.e, outside of the two seat-rails), but the offset distances are modest and there wasn’t much choice. All-in, I’m comfortable with the approach.





Seat:

I elected to have holes cut in the stock seats. Alas, the shop that did the job cut them too small to permit the harness to be easily shoved through the holes, so I will likely return to have the holes enlarged after I return from Thunderhill this weekend. Having spent some time with the seat, I no longer harbor any concerns that modestly-sized and appropriately-positioned holes will threaten its integrity in the event of an accident. I recognize that Lotus doesn’t recommend this, but I am comfortable with the approach. The stock seat may not leave enough clearance for the HANS (which recommends 2” of distance between the back of the HANS and the seat). This may be aggravated by the slight downward slope of my shoulder-straps which seems to pull the device backwards, however. I may revisit this issue later, after I’ve spent some time on the track.

Anti-Submarine Straps:

Because much of the load has been shifted to the rollbar (via the shoulder-straps) and the chassis (via the lap-belt bolts), I felt comfortable attaching my sub-straps to a Sector111 anti-submarine bar. The bar is braced by a beam that runs across the seat and seems pretty stout. The resulting location of the sub-straps is close to ideal, and the short run of the straps is great. What I don’t like about it is that there’s a lot of hardware in a pretty tight space, so I may look into ways of lowering the attachment under the seat to create more room. While Schroth strongly discourages the use of a five-point harness, the tightness of the Elise may merit it. I will have to see how it all feels at the track this weekend.



I'll try to post some photos if I can figure out how to do so. Hope this is of some use to folks.

Best,
Twin

2005 Graphite Gray with Black Interior, Sports Package, Touring Package, Hard Top, Starshield, 6-point Schroth Harness, Fire Extinguisher, and Wiring Loom for DL-1. Otherwise bone stock -- and staying that way -- okay, okay, that's true if you ignore the Braille battery, Micro mirror, Multivex mirrors, ROTA slipstreams, RA-1s, two-piece rotors, springs, polyurethane ASB bushings, RTD brace, Sparco seat, and all the stuff I've taken out of the car...


Last edited by Evil Twin; 04-21-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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post #40 of 148 (permalink) Old 04-21-2006, 12:57 PM
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