Safety Equipment Thread - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 148 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 07:23 PM
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Yes. That is the standard connection bracket if you want to use the Elise seat mounts, which I did originally.

Dan
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post #62 of 148 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drosen
Yes. That is the standard connection bracket if you want to use the Elise seat mounts, which I did originally.

Dan
I've never seen the Ralley bracket offered. Scroth has it as an option on the lap belts? I have to ask TeamTech if they can find them for me. Most of the Elise set-ups I have seen use Eyebolts and the snap-lock.
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post #63 of 148 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 06:29 AM
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I had Lillie at Sector 111 order them for me and I think they my now stock the Prof11h with the rally bracket.

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post #64 of 148 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 08:58 AM
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WRT the rally bracket, you can also use the metal bendable bracket and use clipin-belts. I'm doing this vs. using the standard eyebolts, as the bendable bracket takes less room behind the seats. Schroth has a kit 01324 which includes two bendable rally ends, two bolts, two spring washers, and two crowned washers:



NOTE: the standard 7/16-20 x 7/8 long eyebolts (and bolts in this rally kit) are NOT long enough to make it through the chassis beam behind the seats and still have enough thread to work with a backing plate. Just today I bought 7/16-20 bolts at 1.5" and 1.25" to see which one is best. I'll let everyone know after I'm done. You need a minimum of grade 5 metal for the bolts (Schroth says Grade 8.8, which is a metric quality grading - same as english Grade 5).

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post #65 of 148 (permalink) Old 06-13-2006, 04:19 PM
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Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I installed a 6 point belt today. This thread answered a lot of questions. Pictures are great.
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post #66 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-05-2006, 07:13 PM
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Who has pictures of the Sector 111 rear tow hook installed on their elise or exige?
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post #67 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 05:29 AM
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Why does Scroth strongly discourages the use of a five-point harness, the tightness of the Elise may merit it. ?
I too would have thought that it makes good sense given the tight cabin space. It also seems / feels that it must be a step better that the 4 point that I just upgraded from? I also swapped out the smallish S111 harness bar for the big Lotus Sport unit, which required a speaker moving insert, also by Lotus Sport, and I had harness holes put into the seats too. I'll post pix when I pick the car up from South Bay this week.

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post #68 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macfly
Why does Scroth strongly discourages the use of a five-point harness, the tightness of the Elise may merit it. ?
I can't speak for Schroth, but I'd guess that their concerns are captured by the following post I made in a different thread elsewhere in this forum...

Twin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think there's a lot of confusion about what it means to "submarine". I see two ways that load can be transferred off the hip bones (a hard point of contact) to the abdominal wall (a soft point of contact that puts one's organs at risk) in the event of an accident.

The first is when, at the moment of impact, the body is thrown forward and when the lapbelt tightens, the hipbones slide under the belt. Intuitively, it seems reasonable that the more vertical the seat, the less likely this will happen. Fair enough, although that does NOT mean that a vertical seat such as is found in the Elise will necessarily protect you from submarining. I've not seen any data to evaluate this issue, and until I do, I would much rather assume the risk is there (and be wrong) than assume there's no risk (and find out the hard way).

However, I think another cause of submarining lies with everything that happens BEFORE the moment of impact. I've worn 4-point belts in lots of cars, including Elises, and I've observed the lapbelt to shift upward by a substantial amount just as a function of tightening the shoulder belts. The same thing has happened when I've shifted around in the seat, braked hard for a corner and put pressure on the shoulder straps, or cornered hard and leaned into the straps. Plus, belts can loosen after a few minutes into a hard track session. If the lapbelt creeps up enough before the moment of impact, then it won't take much for you to submarine, even if your seat is nearly vertical.

Bottom line is that I think (and Schroth clearly believes) that if you're concerned enough to install a harness in the first place, it's worth (i) installing a 6-point harness and (ii) using a HANS device. Again, others may have their own opinions, and everyone's got to do what they're comfortable with.

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post #69 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 09:53 AM
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Can you wear a Hans with the stock
seat (with proper 6 point made for hans) ?
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post #70 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim-clayton
Can you wear a Hans with the stock
seat (with proper 6 point made for hans) ?
Sure. The only restrictions for a HANS (realistically/practically speaking) that come to mind are:

1. Wide enough belt (3")
2. Belts that won't slip sideways (off your shoulder) during impact (meaning a welded retainer on the bar, them "criss-crossing" behind the seat, or through holes in the seat.
3. Non ASM belts (no tearing portion on the shoulder belts).

The 4-tress bar for example, has a welded rod which should help retain the shoulder belts instead of letting them slide laterally during an impact... this should allow you to use a HANS. Please keep in mind however that if you are very small and the belts are truly resting on the seat edge and not your shoulders, I suppose it's theoretically possible they could slide more than your shoulders could retain them (with forward motion increasing the tension/friction)...

But I'm no expert, I've just done a smidge of reading so I'd be interested to hear what a pro had to say...

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
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post #71 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 12:14 PM
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It is possible, but I believe unless you are relatively short, you would not be able to achieve the proper angles of the shoulder harness relative to your shoulders and the harness bar. Take a look at the Schroth specs (I posted the link somewhere here, but you can find it at HMS Motorsports website).

Pete
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post #72 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 03:41 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I was concerned about the angle at the top of the seat. The headrest leans forward at the top.
Just wondering if someone uses a Hans with a stock seat.
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post #73 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-08-2006, 04:52 PM
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I'm one of the guys that modified the stock seat to accommadate the Prof II 6 pt and I have a Hans. For me the seat needs to be all the way back or the yolk hits the back. I'm going to have the seat raised in the front and I hope that will also help.

Dan
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post #74 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-09-2006, 04:09 PM
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I also have the stock seat, and after fussing over this question for a while am no longer concerned about how the setup works FOR ME, but bear in mind that (i) I've cut holes in the seat so that the shoulder harness is not deflected in ANY way on its path from the harness bar to the HANS device and (ii) my height is such that I'm close enough to meeting the Schroth recommendations that the shoulder straps run either horizontal or no more than 15 degrees downward from the bar to the HANS. Bear in mind, also, that I have a keeper strap where the straps attach to the bar to meet the Schroth recommendations EXACTLY for how far apart the straps should be at the bar. If anyone's going to do the same, PLS. pay close attention to the instructions that come with your harness, as these things do matter, and unless you're really, really tall, you will need to cut holes in the seat for the shoulder straps.

My installation's not perfect: my shoulder straps fall slightly from the bar to the HANS and the HANS does sit against the headrest when the shoulder straps are tight (and I wear the harness as tight as I can get it, paying attention to the sequence of tightening the lap belts first and then the shoulder harness), but I'm comfortable with the setup. For those of you who fuss with the seat angle, pls. post your findings, as it seems to me that once the shoulder straps are tightened REALLY tight, you'll have contact between the HANS and the seat for most seats, the stock ones included. But if I'm wrong on that, I'd appreciate the info.

Finally, fyi, Psycho, Schroth (and HANS) recommend a 2" shoulder harness for the HANS. It's not required, but the 2" sits better on the yoke.

Twin

2005 Graphite Gray with Black Interior, Sports Package, Touring Package, Hard Top, Starshield, 6-point Schroth Harness, Fire Extinguisher, and Wiring Loom for DL-1. Otherwise bone stock -- and staying that way -- okay, okay, that's true if you ignore the Braille battery, Micro mirror, Multivex mirrors, ROTA slipstreams, RA-1s, two-piece rotors, springs, polyurethane ASB bushings, RTD brace, Sparco seat, and all the stuff I've taken out of the car...

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post #75 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-15-2006, 04:44 PM
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for those who have cut a slot in the seat for the sub belt attachment did you do it forwards or backwards of the support beam/mount located in the seat bottom?
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post #76 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-15-2006, 05:14 PM
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If you use the Sector111 bar or the bar by [email protected], it'll be obvious where the hole needs to go, as both are secured by the bolts which attach the seat to the seatrail assembly. The hole needs to go through the support beam, if we're talking about the same member. I thought I'd posted photos of the underside of the seat earlier in this thread. If not, PM me your email address, and I'll email them to you.

Twin

2005 Graphite Gray with Black Interior, Sports Package, Touring Package, Hard Top, Starshield, 6-point Schroth Harness, Fire Extinguisher, and Wiring Loom for DL-1. Otherwise bone stock -- and staying that way -- okay, okay, that's true if you ignore the Braille battery, Micro mirror, Multivex mirrors, ROTA slipstreams, RA-1s, two-piece rotors, springs, polyurethane ASB bushings, RTD brace, Sparco seat, and all the stuff I've taken out of the car...

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post #77 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-15-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Twin
If you use the Sector111 bar or the bar by [email protected], it'll be obvious where the hole needs to go, as both are secured by the bolts which attach the seat to the seatrail assembly. The hole needs to go through the support beam, if we're talking about the same member.
Twin
thanks for the reply. here is your pic, i was initially confused by the loose belts shown but i understand now they are just the wrap excess.

on the inside of the seat underneath the padding there is another support beam that corresponds to the outer support beam shown in your pic, did you cut a slot into that one as well or route the belts either for or aft?

thanks for the help.
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Last edited by powerbookguy; 10-15-2006 at 05:46 PM.
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post #78 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-15-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Twin
If you use the Sector111 bar or the bar by [email protected],

Twin
Just a big thumbs up for the piece made by [email protected]. I contacted him after reading this thread and couldn't be happier with the piece, very stout. The whole seat could fall apart and Daves bar would still be intact. Good piece, good price, great service.

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post #79 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-15-2006, 09:27 PM
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Got to get HANS. Most collision deaths I've known of are caused by bertebral detachment. I didn't like spending $860 but that's half a day in a hospital or a morgue's fees. Haven't used it on the Exige yet, but use in my 944T.
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post #80 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-17-2006, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbookguy
thanks for the reply. here is your pic, i was initially confused by the loose belts shown but i understand now they are just the wrap excess.

on the inside of the seat underneath the padding there is another support beam that corresponds to the outer support beam shown in your pic, did you cut a slot into that one as well or route the belts either for or aft?

thanks for the help.
bump. appreciate any help.
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