1FASTMX5's Monkey Wrench Racing Turbo Nightmare - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 05:51 PM
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WOW! I can't believe that was the same car that I bumped into with my NFB Elise back in Sept '04. About them having the competance to install a HID kit, after looking at their wiring job, they'd need my harnesses to ensure they don't screw up! Wow...simply...wow. Anthony, if you want a set of HID lights, lemme know...I feel so bad I'll hook you up.

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post #42 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 05:54 PM
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Holy smokes....one would almost have to try to preform work so poorly
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post #43 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 05:59 PM
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post #44 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:00 PM
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This is all very interesting. I'm not sure if I'm on record here as saying this, so I can't claim clairvoyance, but when I heard how company A or company B was going to get their 1st Elise and have their turbo kit whipped up in 3 or 4 weeks, I was very skeptical. I did not think it possible, because of all the fine tuning and detail work needed. I'm sure someone can come up with the component list and physically attach them in 3 weeks, but to make it work is far more complicated.

I agree with Stan, in that a lot of people (some who claim to have great knowledge) really don't know what is going on with their cars. If it runs, and gives them a big surge at 6000+, they call it great and talk about how fantastic things are. So what if it doesn't idle, leaks coolant, or pukes oil.

I am on record as having argued against the camp that thinks turbo kits for the Elise should sell for $3-4000, because look how cheaply you can buy the individual parts for. That camp never acknowledged the cost of development, testing, and detail work. Maybe the MWR Celica stuff is decent because they've sold dozens or more, and have fixed problems as they cropped up. That won't happen with the Elise. If they, or anyone else, ever sells more than 50 turbo kits for the Elise, I'll be shocked. But Elise owners expect the same quality and performance as a Celica owner, so if you want to receive that, the cost will be spread out among fewer units, and that means a higher price.

Looking at the other Hass thread, where the stuff is basically done right but lacking in detail work, I think this lends support to my contention that turbo kit prices aren't just a matter of sourcing the major components from the cheapest sources and saying "Here you go, Turbo Elise at half price." You are paying for development, testing, and details, and you can pay the vendor up front, or pay with your own time and effort.

Of course, the trick is, if you pay the $$$, that the vendor actually delivers the development you expect. Paying $$$ doesn't mean you won't still get ripped off! But it's always been caveat emptor, even if some knowledgable individuals vouch for it.



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post #45 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Stan ur killing me
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post #46 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Well there is always the quality of the welds
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post #47 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1FASTMX5
Stan ur killing me
I'm now convinced that Stan is independantly filthy rich and does nothing other than "work" on ET posts


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post #48 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:21 PM
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It definitely has an "Ah, fuggit, it's just a prototype" look to it.

It is all about "Other".
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post #49 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:24 PM
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Wow. Simply wow. How could any company that lets work that pitifull be delivered to a customer possibly have a good reputation? (I'm assuming they must with some group if you trusted them with your car.)

They say that you can pick two: fast, cheap, and/or quality. Somehow they managed to deliver none of those. Disgraceful.

I'm truly sorry that they did that to you and hope that you are able to get your car to a state where you are able to enjoy it as much as we all are ours.

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post #50 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:34 PM
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I heard grumblings from other people that they are not completely trustworthy, but have had no experience myself. They just posted they got 365whp on a Celica GT-S turbo system with a GT3071 turbo.

The Old: Stock 2ZZ-GE GT2871R Turbo, 6-speed MT, TRD Clutch LSD, SPEC stg III clutch.
The New: MWR 2.0L LR bomb-proof 2ZZ-GE GT35R Turbo, Hydra ECU, W2A intercooling, Tial wastegate and BOV, blah, blah, blah...etc.
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post #51 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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It definitely has an "Ah, fuggit, it's just a prototype" look to it.
They charged me $4000.00, there's nothing prototype about that
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post #52 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 1FASTMX5
They charged me $4000.00, there's nothing prototype about that
I'm just trying to understand how it could be so sloppy. They might have been thinking in terms of "well, let's just get it running and tuned, then fix these problems", but did not get beyond the technical problems. An analogy would be a prototype part in the electronics world. You just get it working, then make sure the production units are good. Now if this kind of thinking does not apply in this case, there is just no explanation for it other than not caring about quality. It does not matter to you, the customer, though. You paid for a turbo kit installed and tuned, expecting something good, and this is what you got instead. As for me, I was just looking forward to seeing a Power FC work in an Elise, had not heard of any problems with MWR turbos, and was expecting something good to come from this. The worst thing I had heard of (and I've been on Spyderchat since '03) prior to your problem was something to do with a clutch. I bought a Power FC and Commander from them a couple years ago and the Commander had a bad key. No problem, send it back. I got a replacement right away.

It is all about "Other".
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post #53 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beanie
I'm just trying to understand how it could be so sloppy.
Incompetence is first to come to mind.

Wrong Coolant
Injectors Installed incorrectly
Exposed wiring
Poor Welding
Missing bolts
Improperly shaved Manifold

These are just some examples of things that are really not beyond very basic knowledge. There is no prototyping to understand these everyday items. It is more revealing of shotty and sloppy work.

The PowerFC would qualify as development and I have not mentioned that in this thread however the things I do mention are really nothing new at all and really don't qualify as developmental challenges.

Last edited by Lotus F1; 04-19-2006 at 09:41 PM.
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post #54 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyb
For the record MWR doesn't make the Oil Pan, Moroso makes the pan and MWR just relabels it.
That sounds much like Stillen... Not sure if they ever got around to actually making any of their own parts but for years they relabled everything, put it in a box as a 'tuned kit' and charged 35-45% more for it. They aren't the only ones.




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post #55 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 09:25 PM
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But not quite just a relabel. MWR helped Moroso design the pan to their specs and that initial design is a MWR only pan. Any other Moroso pan you buy from someone else is a little different because of that reason.

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post #56 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 10:18 PM
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If I totally ruined someone's car, and I didnt care to act responsible, I would say the exact same things the MWR guy "Matt" said in his other posts you listed. You blame the owner and say he has no proof that MWR did anything bad. You must have driven it wrong for your few miles. I love being educated through these forums, but it is a harsh wakeup call for watching your ass in a business deal with crooks.
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post #57 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 10:55 PM
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That's absolutely horrible. One of our members recently purchased a Stage 4 2.0L shortblock from them which (IMO and I think many others) was assembled improperly. The poor guy plunked down a ton of money (nearly $4k on the engine alone) only to get screwed:

http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/view...789&highlight=

The guys on Spyderchat should definitely hear about this...

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post #58 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 11:06 PM
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Ugh. Simply... Ugh. So sorry. The video sounds like an invisible sick donkey being dragged behind an Elise. Please tell us you're going after every cent you invested, plus whatever it's going to take to get it right.

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post #59 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 01:54 AM
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That's some shameful ****.
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post #60 of 174 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 02:16 AM
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I'm in shock......Ah.........

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