Another wiped Cam but a bit different! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Another wiped Cam but a bit different!

A LT member calls me the other day with MIL 1301. I tell him not to drive it until I look at the cams. Today I pulled the valve cover to find what I was fearful of. 2, yes, 2 wiped cam lobes This time not # 3. It was # 2 and #4. I've always suspected that the problem is a hardening issue rather than lubrication and I believe this adds to that story. #1 and #3 looked perfect. Upon further inspection I found that the #2 rocker shaft was broken off as seen in the pics. Notice the galling and thin surface hardening on the first pic...

This is stock car that rarely if ever sees redline and is regularly serviced with 30K miles...

Here are the pics...

Jsut thought I would add this one to the list

Best,

Phil
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post #2 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 09:47 PM
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What year car?

2006 Elise, Ardent Red, Black Pack, LSS wheels, shocks and springs.
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post #3 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 07:29 AM
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agh that does not look good at all...

'06 Ardent Red Elise - black interior with LSS, Touring, HT, Starshield, Lotus Sport Clutch, Moroso Oil Pan, Ekological HIDs, Lotus Driving Lights, Stebel Horn, Bootie, Razo '06 Pedal mod,Snorkel Delete,Odyssey 680 with s111 bracket.
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post #4 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 07:38 AM
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I still want to know how Lotus can claim a cam hardening issue is a warranty issue as opposed to recall issue.

the1sen: why move forward with design when you can recreate a monstrosity from the past?
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post #5 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 09:07 AM
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Should I just invest in new cams now instead of waiting?

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post #6 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 10:25 AM
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Whose was it?

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post #7 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 10:58 AM
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Mine wore on #2 and #3.
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post #8 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 11:10 AM
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My warranty expires on 16th November, so although I have no symptoms, next weekend I am pulling the valve cover.
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post #9 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 11:19 AM
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Approximately how much labor is it to pull the valve cover? More with a blower on?

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post #10 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post
Approximately how much labor is it to pull the valve cover? More with a blower on?
30-45min

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post #11 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Guys,

No names for now on the car. It's not my call, he just said it was fine to post pics to let others know that it's more than just #3 cylinder...

MY is 2005.

Car has mainly highway miles.

Pulling the valve cover is literally a 10 minute job with a 1/4" cordless impact or perhaps 15 minutes with a ratchet.

-Simply pull the coil packs out
-Remove injector cover
-Zip out the 10 or so 10mm head (m6) bolts that go around the valve cover
-Remove both breather lines (drivers side)
-Remove both 10mm nuts (m6) that attach the oil drain hose to the cover (passenger side).

Then lift up on the cover pulling the drivers side straight up. That's important! than pull the cover to the rear so that studs going to the oil drain clear the drain flange.

I did this for the person in a parking lot in just a few minutes with a 10mm wrench, 10mm socket with 1/4" impact, and a pair of pliers for the two hose clamps. Very easy project...



Cams are easy to replace- sorta. If there's rocker arm damage, then it gets a bit more complicated. If not, you just remove chain tensioner, cam gears, and cam caps. Buy new cams and install them and check the valve lash. with a bit of luck, the lash will be OK. If not, you'll have to shim accordingly (lash is set via valve stem caps). You'll need the 2zz service book to do the valve lash and for the install process of the VVT drum on the intake cam. It's not really hard, it just takes some time.

If you catch the wear soon enough, you'll probably get away without replacing the rockers. In this particular case, there's clearly damage to 2 of the rockers....

Best,

Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #12 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 11:43 AM
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post #13 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 12:18 PM
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Thanks Phil. Sounds like I can easily do the valve cover myself, but replacing cams definitely not.


Phil, would you recommend upgraded cams or stock replacements in terms of reliability? Seems counterintuitive to replace with the same problematic parts.

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post #14 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post
Thanks Phil. Sounds like I can easily do the valve cover myself, but replacing cams definitely not.


Phil, would you recommend upgraded cams or stock replacements in terms of reliability? Seems counterintuitive to replace with the same problematic parts.
well that would be a good test to verify it is a hardening issue

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post #15 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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I have no experience with after-market cams on these cars, so I really can't comment other than just speculate...

Speculation: From what I gather from the few who have tried them, the piper cams need subsequent tuning to yield any gain and may lose power without tuning, which makes sense...

With previous cars, I've been able to get custom ground cams made. Cam companies simply build the lobes up, grind them down and then harden correctly. I don't see why we can't do them same with these cams and simply have them ground to stock specs and then harden. Would have to talk to some of the cam companies to look into this... Perhaps I can look into this in coming weeks. Have a pretty full plate right now though and my cams are fine so no promises...

Yup, valve cover is easy. I would think the clam must come off (tilt up, etc) for rocker shafts as I just don't think there's enough room to slide them out with the clam on, but I dunno for sure. The cams would be a fairly easy, yet time consuming, operation with clam on though...

Best,

Phil


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist View Post
Thanks Phil. Sounds like I can easily do the valve cover myself, but replacing cams definitely not.


Phil, would you recommend upgraded cams or stock replacements in terms of reliability? Seems counterintuitive to replace with the same problematic parts.


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

____________________________________________

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BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


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post #16 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 01:02 PM
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If an engine has this problem and nothing is done about it, what are the symptoms and what will eventually happen?
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post #17 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 01:47 PM
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Sorry to hear about that, Phil. Rocker broke exactly like the others. That you say the car rarely, if ever, sees redline, I think probably rules out valve float/overrevs as the cause as some have speculated. I'll add you to 'the list'.

I still stand by my original assertion that there are inherent defects in these engines and I still recommend that those affected make a report to the NHTSA. That's what got the ball rolling with BMW when fuel pumps started going bad on 335is.

Last edited by Icedog_16; 10-19-2008 at 01:52 PM.
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post #18 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear about that, Phil. Rocker broke exactly like the others. That you say the car rarely, if ever, sees redline, I think probably rules out valve float/overrevs as the cause as some have speculated. I'll add you to 'the list'.

I still stand by my original assertion that there are inherent defects in these engines and I still recommend that those affected make a report to the NHTSA. That's what got the ball rolling with BMW when fuel pumps started going bad on 335is.
Ice- Thanks.

For a point of clarification, it's not my car.

The car I posted about it driven quite gingerly by comparison to mine which sees red line all too often, unfortunately...

Best,

Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

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post #19 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix SRT View Post
If an engine has this problem and nothing is done about it, what are the symptoms and what will eventually happen?

Okay, a broken rocker is the eventual outcome. I should have seen that before I asked the question. Sorry about that. But, I'd still like to know the sypmtoms before the rocker lets go...that's not such a dumb question, is it?
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post #20 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phoenix SRT View Post
Okay, a broken rocker is the eventual outcome. I should have seen that before I asked the question. Sorry about that. But, I'd still like to know the sypmtoms before the rocker lets go...that's not such a dumb question, is it?
Not dumb at all...

MIL 1301 or 1302 is common. Do a search for those two items and you'll see a ton of info on this...

Best,

Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

____________________________________________

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