Another wiped Cam but a bit different! - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by turbophil View Post
Good info X... this is what I was worried about... Either the design is simply poor and was designed too close to failure, or the hardening process is faulty from cam to cam... It would be cool to x ray the cams to see how thick and what variation there is in the hardening on some of the bad cams vs. a good one... Any dentists out there that want to x-ray some metal parts

Cheers,

Phil
Phil, I'll be happy to x-ray any part you wish, but I'm not sure I'll be able to produce a diagnostic image. Wouldn't we need to X-ray the lobe in cross-section to see anything? And does the hardening process actually change the density of the metal? I thought it would just work harden it or re-align the metallurgic structure or something. I realize an x-ray will show voids in castings and such, but I've never known it to be used to measure hardness. For that we'd need to run a vickers or brinell test where we push a very hard ball or point into the metal with tons of force and measure the size of the defect. Or for very hard surfaces, I believe they use a scratch test of sorts.. But X-rays?

If you know more about it than I do, and want to run some tests, I'd be happy to assist...

It would be fun
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post #62 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 02:15 PM
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A similar one, if not the same, should work in the Elise to replace the oil cooler sandwich plate (non-thermostat) that comes with the car.
the following is copied from the sandsmuseum website as part of instructions for changing the oil in a lotus. It refers to oil cooler thermostat..

so do we have them??

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post #63 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 02:31 PM
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Ok, I just looked at the Sandsmuseum site. That does look like a thermostat
Lotus Elise Maintenance, Oil Change Tutorial



A non thermostat sandwich plate looks like this (from my Esprit)


the Mocal oil cooler thermostat looks like this
https://www.burtonpower.com/product_...97&sTxt=moctb3



Note the spring loaded thermostat mechanism in the end of the housing.

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post #64 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 04:43 PM
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oil cooler thermostat sandwich plate in my Esprit to help oil temps come up faster (82C) in all conditions.

A similar one, if not the same, should work in the Elise to replace the oil cooler sandwich plate (non-thermostat) that comes with the car.
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Ok, I just looked at the Sandsmuseum site. That does look like a thermostat
Not only does it look like a thermostat, it is a thermostat. Many people think the extra "fitting" on the Elise's sandwich plate is an extra "port", but it's actually the thermostat.




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post #65 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 06:16 PM
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Oil cooler-equipped or not, your oil temp is still going to lag way behind coolant temp. However, I'm curious at what temp the Elise/Exige cooler stat opens. When it does open, you're mixing cold oil with the heated stuff.

In an ideal world, you wouldn't run an oil cooler on an exclusive street car, but this is a acceptable compromise for a car that is built for people who like to do occasional HPDEs.

Having said that, I'd still be patient about hitting redline until long after the coolant is at normal operating temp.
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post #66 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xtn View Post
The service manager told me I had a 13,000 rpm rev, and that Lotus would not cover it.

I tried to explain all the logical reasons why he should disregard that 13,000 rpm rev, including primarily the fact that my oil pump, crank shaft, rods, pistons, valves, crank case, various engine-driven accessories, etc., were all still attached to the car and functioning as designed. He wouldn't buy it though; the ECM showed me revving to 13,000 rpm, and that was that.

The honorable Judge Simkin - of Lotus USA - was more agreeable with my position, and kindly set the service manager straight for me.

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13,000??????

Half your engine would have shot to the moon!

WTF was the service manager thinking?

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post #67 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-22-2008, 08:31 PM
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13,000??????

Half your engine would have shot to the moon!

WTF was the service manager thinking?
I don't know about the Elise's 2zz motor, but I hit 13,500rpm (mathematically) a few times in my old Acura Integra D16A when the automatic decided to shift to 1st at 65mph. Felt like I had dropped an anchor.

The motor later hit 8000+ a few times and kept driving for years, more than another 130,000miles. And that motor was at redline (7400rpm) very often.

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post #68 of 287 (permalink) Old 10-23-2008, 09:27 PM
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The factory lash spec on the intake valves is too tight for cars that are revved high consistently. They need to be set to 0.010" between the valve and rocker, which is the maximum end of the stock spec. The valves grow too much under high temp and speed to set it any looser.
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post #69 of 287 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Since you're all pulling down the panties on your cars, I thought I'd join in on the fun. Lobes and rockers look great - nice, smooth, and score-free for an early '05. Must admit, I get on my car the minute the ECU allows high cam...no problems here.

PS: Don't forget to check the oil jets for obstruction or improper drilling. There's been more than one owner whose reported that some of the holes were not pointing correctly...sure fire way to have problems.
Hey Dave, can you explain this in detail?
Reason being, I have been experiencing severe oil loss - could this be due to the oil jets malfunctioning, and therefore burning excess oil?

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post #70 of 287 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 05:35 PM
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Hey Dave, can you explain this in detail?
Reason being, I have been experiencing severe oil loss - could this be due to the oil jets malfunctioning, and therefore burning excess oil?
Here is a great thread that explains it: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/...e-p1302-50594/
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post #71 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 04:34 PM
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Can someone post the valve cover removal and installation process with torque values?

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post #72 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 05:21 PM
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This sounds like a perfect excuse for someone to make up some blower cams with less overlap to keep the boost in the cylinders. I will bet there are enough buyers to do several sets.
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post #73 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 08:47 PM
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id recomend getting the stg 2 cams... i absolutly love them, and im still on stock ecu untuned..
and in a small car like the lotus the new aquiered torque down low will feel awsome.
but to get the most out of the cams u should get a ported TB then it will come alive. (:


sorry to hear about everyones cam wear.. ):
i havnt heard of any wear on the celica.. so couldnt u change the valve cover over to the celicas/matrix valve cover?
What is the "butterfly removal mod"?
Is this about the 1/4 open TB flap?

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post #74 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:06 PM
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Yet Another Wiped Cam

After reading about all of the galled cam lobes that peolpe have been reporting, I decided to pull the valve cover and have a look to see if there might be any problem. I have not had any codes set, I was just curious. Well I found what I did not want to see. The #3 cylinder high lift intake lobe is severely galled as can be seen below.

My car is an 2006 Elise Chassis #357 built in September of 2005 and has ~19K miles. I know some people are interested in this information to try and pinpoint the affected range of serial #s.

I took a look and did not see any issues with the holes drilled in the oiling tubes in the valve cover that others have reported.

The cam wear is so severe there are ~0.010” tall ridges at the edges of the lobe where there is not contact with the rocker. Thankfully, it appears there has not been a rocker arm failure (yet).

Looks like once the snow is gone, it will be time for a trip to the dealer in MA to have this resolved since the car is under warranty until November 09. Hopefully the warranty will be honored.

How have other people made out with this problem as far as repairing under warranty?

This really bites it, I was willing to buy the Elise mostly based on the perceived reliability of the Toyota engine and drive train. So much for that idea.

Can anyone tell me what the torque specs are for the valve cover bolts and the sparkplug coil bolts so I can button this back up?

Dave
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post #75 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 10:32 PM
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Sorry to see the bad cam in your car Wicked. You should have no problem getting the cam and rocker arms replaced under warranty as long as your oil change records are up to date and your ECU dump shows no over revs or other signs of abuse. Lotus is well aware of the cam issue by now, so it should just be a routine warranty claim. As far as the torque for the valve cover and coil bolts, it is 7 lbs/ft.
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post #76 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 11:18 PM
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is this an 05-06 issue or are we seeing it on later models as well?

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post #77 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 05:59 AM
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+1 Good question??

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is this an 05-06 issue or are we seeing it on later models as well?
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post #78 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 08:09 PM
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Add me to the "Wiped Cam" List

2005 Serial #0062 - 24K miles, no codes, just pulled cover to check wear.

Intake cam wear most noticeable on #1, but also starting on #3 and maybe a bit on #4.

This car is not run hard. No sustained 2nd cam time. Just a blast on a weekend morning once in a while.

Frustrating as I have no confidence this will not happen on the next cam I put in.

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post #79 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tonywa28 View Post
2005 Serial #0062 - 24K miles, no codes, just pulled cover to check wear.

Intake cam wear most noticeable on #1, but also starting on #3 and maybe a bit on #4.

This car is not run hard. No sustained 2nd cam time. Just a blast on a weekend morning once in a while.

Frustrating as I have no confidence this will not happen on the next cam I put in.
Sorry to read the news... the good news is that the parts are cheap and not too tough to replace should you choose to do the work yourself.... Just buy the bits from Toyota- cost about 200 bucks...

Best of luck,

Phil


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post #80 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-19-2009, 09:28 PM
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Just buy the bits from Toyota- cost about 200 bucks...Best of luck, Phil
Yes, sorry about the cams, guys.

If it happens to me I might try one of the shops that the NASCAR guys use to heat treat, cryo, special coating, ??? to the new cams before replacing. Wonder if anyone has done it yet? Has anyone tested the failed cams for improper metallurgy?
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