Another wiped Cam but a bit different! - Page 6 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #101 of 287 (permalink) Old 03-08-2010, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Not exactly...

Celica GTS, 2ZZ engine. 2000-2004 will work (they're the same cams across the board). Not a celica expert, but I don't believe they went passed 2004... My generic year I ask for is 2002 just to keep it simple...

Rgds,

Phil


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post #102 of 287 (permalink) Old 03-08-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbophil View Post
Not exactly...

Celica GTS, 2ZZ engine. 2000-2004 will work (they're the same cams across the board). Not a celica expert, but I don't believe they went passed 2004... My generic year I ask for is 2002 just to keep it simple...

Rgds,

Phil
Thanks for the quick reply!

So many of these things have gone bad, I am surprised no one has started a group buy yet.
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post #103 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 10:52 AM
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Spent some time looking around on the web for a part number. Lots of sites list the camshaft but none have the part number.

Here is a local dealer`s site:

Mechanical Catalog - 2005 - Toyota - Celica
Engine, Camshaft and timing, Intake camshaft, Intake camshaft, celica, gt-s - 1.8l w/vvt - 1.8L W/VVT

BTW the dealer wants $286.

Toyotaparts123.com wants $205
ToyotaPartsCenter.com wants $228
ToyotaPartsBarn.com wants $212

They all have a similar description, although the non-dealer sites listed years as 00-05, the same illustration and the same buttons. Portal?
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post #104 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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I usually budget 250 for the cam/rocker combo, so you're right in the ballpark with those prices...

We have our pistons and engine bearings coated... I've been meaning to try a similar coating on the cam, although I'm not sure how long the coating will last in that situation... It couldn't hurt though!

The last cam I took out the other week looked like hell--the worst I've seen yet... I'm starting to question the slider on the rocker. In each cam wiping situation I've seen, the rocker was also in bad shape... In this latest instance, the rockers were terribly worn. Hard telling which is the chicken and the egg though...

Cheers,

Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #105 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 04:05 PM
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When I worked at a local race shop we built GSXR and Huyabusa powered SCCA C and D sports racers we coated the valve spring and picked up 2-4 hp on the Dyno on the 1k motors something to do with the spring twisting as it compressed? probably useless here!
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post #106 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 06:51 PM
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Does anyone make roller followers for this motor?

All torque, no traction...Exige S.
Real sports cars don't have A/C!
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post #107 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 04:40 PM
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We've caught a few engines early with only a light indication of excessive wear on the intake cam lobes. In those cases we've replaced the cam only and then either modified or replaced the valve cover to get the lube oil re-aimed. Have not seen any of those have any future problems. I just mention it because the cam alone is under $100 and much easier to replace than cam+rockers. We haven't had to reshim in these cases either. If there is any doubt about the condition of the rockers though I still tell people to replace them to be safe.

The 2ZZ was in the Celica from 2000-2005.

Nobody makes an alternative roller valvetrain because the VVL mechanism is fairly complicated making a replacement very expensive especially for such low volume. Most of the engines (especially earlier model years) have had no issues with the excessive wear and besides that the stock valvetrain works very well. It's good that the word is out and so many people know to watch for this issue so they can catch it before any real damage is done.
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post #108 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 11:52 AM
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I'm trying to pull my valve cover and have all bolts out. The cover seems to be stuck down. How aggressive do you have to get with this??? Thanks.

Rob

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post #109 of 287 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 12:12 PM
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Just found a final bolt under the intercooler mount. Looks like I'll have to pull the inter cooler to get the cover off.

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post #110 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 06:19 PM
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Took my cover off... they lobes feel pretty smooth, but I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking for... Thoughts?




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post #111 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-03-2010, 02:14 PM
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FIL, I would run my thumbnail across the high lift intake lobe on number 4 (large lobe on the left in your first picture). Number 4 looks a little sketchy in your pictures compared to the others but it may just be the picture. You should not feel any surface variation as you scrape your thumbnail across the high point of the lobe. You should have your thumbnail perpendicular to the cam shaft moving it across the lobe axially along the cam shaft. See my pictures in post #74 of this thread for a good esxample of the problem.

Dave

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post #112 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-03-2010, 02:35 PM
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Thanks, Dave. I didn't feel any grooves, but probably need to take a closer look. TurboPhil is pretty sure the the #4 intake lobe is dead.

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post #113 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-03-2010, 04:03 PM
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I am glad this problem is well talked about. Decided to take a look at my cams and #1 and #4 are completely ruined. .025"-.030" is gone form the top of the lobe Nothing broken yet, but from what I have seen on here the rocker arm would let go at my first track event. I'm ordering a new set today.

This problem is interesting becuase #2 and #3 looked fine, surface marks but no measurable wear. Can't tell you much about the cars history, I have only owned it since February. It's an 06 with 22k miles. I can hear cam ticking at idle, much above that and the exhaust drowns it out. It quiets down a bit once it has gotten up to temperature.
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post #114 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-03-2010, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIL View Post
Took my cover off... they lobes feel pretty smooth, but I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking for... Thoughts?

#4 looks no good. do yourself a favor...

Toyota OEM Intake Camshaft and Rocker Set (4) - 2ZZ-GE - TOY-13501-29025 van Toyota OEM -

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post #115 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-06-2010, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Once a wiper, always a wiper

I've been trying to document the cam wiping thing a bit more. Normally, I'm in such a hurry to get a car back on the road, I haven't taken the time to write down the measurement pre and post cam wiping...

Toyota specs the intake cam lash at .007-.0010 and the exh at .014-.018". This makes sense due to the exh valve being so much hotter that it should grow more than the intake valve... Now Toyota probably also spec'd these tolerances to a "normal" street driven car--- not a lotus. Even the weekend wally driver of a lotus probably averages a much higher rpm (which means more heat too) than what the engine was designed for. I'm going to bet that in NA form, lotus spec'd these engines as a standard GTS engine with no changes and then tuned them up a bit for the elise and NA exige of 05 and 06... Then when they started with the Exige S, they asked toyota to spec a larger intake lash, leaving the exh alone. This is my guess as to why we see so many 05 and 06 cars with wiped intake cams. To compound the problem, we add blowers which further adds combustion heat helping the intake valve to grow even more--- similar to an exhaust valve...

It's also been evident that cars that wipe a cam will wipe another despite lash being within Toyota spec. I think it would be good practice for those of you who wipe a cam to increase your lash to about .012" to help avoid the problem in the future... Or more if you're really worried about.

Couple more for the well....

Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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Last edited by turbophil; 06-07-2010 at 07:35 AM.
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post #116 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-07-2010, 02:15 PM
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just like to add my own update..

Early batch 2005 Elise, not sure on assembly #.

Driving habits: Never tracked, but driven quite hard (I thoroughly enjoyed the car!) I would hammer it into 2nd cam as soon as the car allowed.

17,000 miles: during cam change, engine threw codes, car went into limp mode
damage: replaced cams, rockers, complete valve job, machined the damage from bits of metal going into the #3 cylinder. Every setting back to factory. Parts purchased from Lotus.

22,000 miles: Lost nearly all power, and an incredibly loud knocking noise, Also happened during cam change.
Damage: detonation of #3 cylinder, broken cam lobe #3, #2. you get the picture~

I live in san antonio TX, and the car has more than once had issues with keeping cool in high summer. More than once it went into limp mode due to coolant heat being above 210F (or whenever it starts flashing), usually in stop traffic. Both incidents happened during the coldest parts of winter.

For the engine build, we talked to lotus, $15,000 for a crated motor.
We looked at replacement used motors off celica GTS, and i believe two other toyotas, $6000-$7000 for low mileage.
Ultimately we just purchased every single individual part from Toyota, and are assembling it our selves. I believe it was $3000-$4000.

I believe this is the safest method to avoid the possible causes for this issue. If its a bad batch lotus received from toyota, or if its an issue with the cam cover, then I think I'll be fine.

Any thoughts or questions?

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04' Lexus Is300
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post #117 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 03:39 PM
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There appear to be two intake camshafts offered on the toyota sites, one for '00-'05 and another for '03'-'05. Which one is correct?

CAMSHAFT SUB-ASSY N - 1.8L W/VVT
03-05 $288.19 $213.26

Intake camshaft, celica, gt-s - 1.8l w/vvt - 1.8L W/VVT
00-05 $286.06 $211.68

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post #118 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 03:32 PM
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All 4 Lobes Wiped

Early '05 with production date of '04 the vin is 0194.
It has about 42,000 miles.


Mine started tapping loudly last week after church. No check engine light and No codes.


Pulled coil connectors one at a time and tap never changed. Pulled the plugs and ran a compression test. All cylinders within 5psi dry.

Removed valve cover and found this:


Ordered intake cam and followers yesterday. I drive it hard and I'm still pissed.

I agree with your recommendation to increase valve lash, thanks for posting I wouldn't have thought of that in my current state.

What about oil pump and regulator valve? I was thinking all that metal had to go somewhere.

Thanks All

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post #119 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Don't get too upset. Can't change it now It's pretty easy to fix as well and you'll learn something doing it...

FWIW- the metal is sitting in your oil filter...

Swap out your cam and rockers. Pretty easy. You slide your coolant catch tank out of the way just by removing the top 8mm bolt and then the catch can lifts up and out of it's mount... Remove VVT actuator and the shafts will slide out the drivers side... Once the rockers and cam are in, measure the lash on all 8 valves. Write it down. Whatever the difference is between your desired lash and the measured lash is what you need to change... You'll probably see a lot of 8s... shoot for 12 thou... allow yourself 11-13 thou... How you get to the desired lash is up to you and what you're comfortable with... New buckets or filing down the old buckets will be your options since you can't tip the valves with the head on the engine. New buckets are the right way to do it... FWIW- The buckets are small enough that their hardness seems to go all the way through the part, so the filing technique can be considered... Regardless of the technique, you'll need a micrometer and something to place inside the bucket since your mic won't fit... Pretty easy stuff once you sit down and do it...

Good luck,

Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #120 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 10:58 AM
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Installed new cam and rockers last night.
Sounds and runs great.

Measured buckets with the dial indicator.
I'll go easy till new buckets come in.

05 BRG Elise - 9:1 built motor- rev 400 66mm pulley
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