A better C64 Transmission - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 54Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
So we're making progress! I was hoping to have protos by now, but we're making some really good tweaks to the designs.

Should have proto sets in hand in about 5 more weeks. Production will be available over the holidays/january. In time for the 2016 driving season.

Attached a few pics below: We have a very beefy semi-helical design to add strength and keep it running quiet.

We have aggressive fillets on all the gears on the input shaft AND we're probably going to do the input shaft in 300M vs 4340 for everything else. Both materials are superior to the 9310 used by the OEM.

1st -4th gears are beefier and wider where possible.
Attached Images
   


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 12:10 PM
Registered User
 
Giantmcm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 2,604
Garage


After I get my car built...I know what I will be saving for next.

2005 Lotus Elise Graphite Grey - Salvaged title started the SSM build!!!
Maverick ML8 - Other daily
2005 VW Passat Station Wagon TDI (harder to find than the lotus?)
2005 Lotus Elise Starlight Black - Sold
Giantmcm is offline  
post #43 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 12:47 PM
Registered User
 
eldonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 843
Fred,

Did you make a final decision on ratios and ring & pinion?

Thanks,
Eldon
eldonz is offline  
 
post #44 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 02:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,337
What's the forecasted price?
Nessal is offline  
post #45 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 04:49 PM
Registered User
 
kfennell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,840
Yeah that would be awesome, I just lost 2nd synchro I think so I am now in the market and all the sudden the price is important!
kfennell is offline  
post #46 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
We don't have the pricing locked down yet. We need to get the protos done and make sure were happy with the fit, function etc. to lock that down. The price will be a good value for what we're putting together. Class-A + materials, design, and heat-treat throughout. I have zero desire to be the "low-cost leader" with chinese crap. We've seen one popular gear set in our transmission shop alot lately with exploded gears.

The ratios are probably good, but until we cut and fit them, they could move around. The MPH I listed at the beginning of this thread is representative of those ratios. There will be alot of flexibility since the stock ring + our Ring and Pinion along with taller 6th gear option for cruise. We're going to setup our Ultimate Street Car with our Ring & Pinion + the taller 6th for cruise. I'll post the ratios once they are locked down too!

Thanks guys!


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #47 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-01-2015, 11:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,337
Fred, any idea how much more power this can hold over stock?
Nessal is offline  
post #48 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 12:07 AM
Registered User
 
275 Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand (work all over the world)
Posts: 470
If it can support 400rwhp I'll be all over it. Obviously a group by deal to kick things off


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

2005 Elise 111R, 2litre, 315hp, FF275 Turbo kit 6lbs. Soon to be 400+
275 Turbo is offline  
post #49 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
On the Torque(Torque is the killer, not HP) side, its got a ton of of variables. Stickiness of the tires, Launch Load, Engine Torque etc. etc. We've seen failures in the Pinion Gear from Launching, 2nd and 3rd from repeated over torque, and repeated synchro death.

I am really fortunate that not only do we have a proven high performance/racing gear and shaft partner, but we also have 3 different material & engineering experts consulting!

- Combined 80+ years in materials science, specifically high strength steel design and use in motorsport, aerospace, and OEM gear, shaft, and axle applications.

We're upgrading to improve all these areas:

Most important is design:
-Wider 1st, 3rd, 4th to add strength
-Improved fillets in key areas to reduce stress risers
-Bigger, thicker gear roots to vastly strengthen teeth
-Lower Helical angle to improve strength.
-Closer ratios to reduce the work on the synchros for longer life

-Better material and heat-treatment.

Stock uses a softer, case hardened steel. They do this because it is easy and cheap to machine and the case hardening gives about 0.040" of hard outer layer for wear and tear.
We'll be using 4340 THROUGH-Hardened steel for everything but the input shaft. This provides a far tougher, more flexible part:

The input shaft will be 300M. 300M is "super 4340" and damn-expensive. It has even higher toughness, ductility, and greater surface hardness and crack resistance. This part will also be cryoed as standard.

Above and beyond this, for even more extreme duty, we have a proper Aerospace grade shot-peen partner(they shot-peen Apache rotors(GunPilot giving you the shout-out!)) AND the correct SAE spec for media and intensity to add significant compressive pre-stress for even higher durability. Not some guy blasting parts randomly in a booth in his garage. Each lot has a pair of SAE standard test strips to show the peening intensity. This will be an option since it is not cheap.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #50 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
Really this solution fits a specific target. If you are looking for 750HP drag car with Mickey Thompson slicks, it probably isn't for you.

This is for folks with a modified Elise or Exige with TVS400 type power that wants to:

1. Have daily driver convenience of the stock 6 speed synchro box.
2. Lower noise vs. straight cut gears
3. Better ratios for the power i.e. taller 1st and 2nd for stoplight duels.
4. Better ratios for the track i.e. closer throughout to keep it in the powerband
5. Reduced synchro wear from tighter ratios.
6. Option for a tall cruise 6th to comfortably get you to and from work or fun.
7. Same weight and packaging as standard box.
8. "No compromises Race-Ready" design, heat treat, and materials for good service life with higher than stock power.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels

Last edited by fzust; 10-02-2015 at 06:46 AM.
fzust is offline  
post #51 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 07:15 AM
Registered User
 
kfennell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,840
I super like the sound of all those things, I hope I can afford it!
kfennell is offline  
post #52 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 08:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Colorado springs CO
Posts: 1,200
I am planning a engine and trans upgrade. it would great if you could give a ballpark range for the 1 to 4 gears. we will not hold you to the price
lotus90 is offline  
post #53 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus90 View Post
I am planning a engine and trans upgrade. it would great if you could give a ballpark range for the 1 to 4 gears. we will not hold you to the price
I'll see what I can put together next week. Remember that 1 - 4 will be 6 gears + input shaft. 1 & 2 drive are built into the input shaft. Then you have 1 & 2 driven + 3 & 4 drive and driven gears.

Ring and pinion will be a separate option if you like.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #54 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 02:55 PM
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzust View Post
Really this solution fits a specific target. If you are looking for 750HP drag car with Mickey Thompson slicks, it probably isn't for you.

This is for folks with a modified Elise or Exige with TVS400 type power that wants to:

1. Have daily driver convenience of the stock 6 speed synchro box.
2. Lower noise vs. straight cut gears
3. Better ratios for the power i.e. taller 1st and 2nd for stoplight duels.
4. Better ratios for the track i.e. closer throughout to keep it in the powerband
5. Reduced synchro wear from tighter ratios.
6. Option for a tall cruise 6th to comfortably get you to and from work or fun.
7. Same weight and packaging as standard box.
8. "No compromises Race-Ready" design, heat treat, and materials for good service life with higher than stock power.
Take my money!
Lotus F1 is offline  
post #55 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 05:50 PM
Registered User
 
Shirp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston/College Station, Tx
Posts: 379
Dumb question....but would mpg be impacted that much? This is definitely something I want to add after going Rev!
Shirp is offline  
post #56 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 07:59 PM
afm
Registered User
 
afm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirp View Post
Dumb question....but would mpg be impacted that much? This is definitely something I want to add after going Rev!
Adding the C60 6th gear from the Celica will boost your highway mileage and save your ears by dropping cruising RPMs 11%. This is one of the options listed earlier in the thread. I have it in my car (not a BWR box), and it's great!

As far as city mpg goes, it depends how much second cam your city driving involves.

2007 Storm Ti Elise, Cup wheels, REV300
1992 Miata, gutted, Tillett seats
2007 Volvo V70R
afm is offline  
post #57 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
AFM is correct. The mileage generally won't change much except based on highway RPM cruise. The taller 6th is great. Out here in the west standard highway speed is 80mph, so the stock 6th is a bit of a buzz bomb. The taller 6th fixes that. With standard lotus we picked up about 2mpg highway with the taller gear.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #58 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-02-2015, 08:59 PM
Registered User
 
275 Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand (work all over the world)
Posts: 470
Hey mate is this going to come as a kit or as a fully assembled GB? Only reason I ask is I'm from NZ and shipping would be a nightmare on a full GB. Thanks


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

2005 Elise 111R, 2litre, 315hp, FF275 Turbo kit 6lbs. Soon to be 400+
275 Turbo is offline  
post #59 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 275 Turbo View Post
Hey mate is this going to come as a kit or as a fully assembled GB? Only reason I ask is I'm from NZ and shipping would be a nightmare on a full GB. Thanks


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Good Question! Our place is to offer both. We'll have fully-assembled gearboxes available with core exchange or have the parts available.

My guess is that many folks domestically will go the core route as there are several pitfalls in disassembly and assembly for the novice, not unlike building and engine. It is easy to break a few gears in disassembly without the right tools etc.
275 Turbo likes this.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #60 of 250 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 10:30 AM
Registered User
 
275 Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand (work all over the world)
Posts: 470
Thanks that good to know. Maybe I could purchase a 2nd GB over there and then ship the new one. We will see, I'm sure we can work something out


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

2005 Elise 111R, 2litre, 315hp, FF275 Turbo kit 6lbs. Soon to be 400+
275 Turbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome