Is this cam wiped? Need Help! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Is this cam wiped? Need Help!

Hi,

Took my car out for a little ride two weeks ago, nothing crazy just some regular street driving enjoying the weather here, and I stopped at the grocery store. I got back into the car and tried to start it up and it stalled out like 5-6 times in the parking stall. I tried it again and it managed to start and idle this time so i immediately drove back home. Pulled in the driveway and was backing it in and it stalled again. Started it up again and when it fired up it made a funky noise on ignition and then threw a MIL. I turned it immediately off and pushed it in the garage. Grabbed the OBD scanner and it threw a P0340 camshaft position sensor A circuit. This was the only code it threw.

Did some searches on the forum (thank god for this forum ) and saw it could be the wiring to the sensor, the sensor itself, a fuse in the engine bay i think the 7.5A one or some other related wiring issue possibly at the ECU. I checked the sensor, no broken wires or fraying on the connector, looked at the loom a ways no burns or anything odd and i checked the fuse it was good and no debris or issues in the fuse holder. I havn't checked the ECU wiring yet or connectors as i'm not sure which connector to look at..... So next step was to take off the Cover and inspect the cams themselves. I took the cover off and snapped a few pics then rotated the crank and took a few more pics.

Attached is what i found. Can anyone tell me if my intake cam is boned? The small cam lobe closest to the cam gear seems to have pitting or something. Its rough when i scratch it with my finger nail and up close looks like small divots in the lobe. Hoping someone with expert experience can help me as i'm not sure if this could be the reason for my P0340 code or if I should keep looking for what caused that. Any advice on tracking the P0340 code issue or whether this is a wiped cam would be greatly appreciated! Want to get this car back on the road as soon as possible so i can at least enjoy it for the rest of summer. Thanks in advance!!!


-Frank
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2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
2007 Exige S Phantom Black | Revised 2bular 4-1 Header, Sport CAT, and one of the last Euro Exit Exhausts | Plus too many mods to list.... (R.I.P)
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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More Pics...
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2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 02:45 PM
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Uh oh. You have two unrelated problems.

1. The P0340 code is a CPS circuit error. It's specifically an electrical fault anywhere in that system.

2. Massive flat spot on the intake cam lobe shown below. The red curve indicates how that lobe's surface should flow.

I know BOE sells intake cams with a super hard surface. They're pricey, but do come with OEM cam profiling so no ECU remap is needed.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 04:40 PM
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I always thought that the high lift cams were the ones that wiped- in these photos I cannot clearly see evidence of that.

However, the cam lobe (one that rides the roller, I believe) highlighted in the above post looks strangely pitted to me. How can an oil soaked part get corrosion pitting?
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-12-2017, 09:11 PM
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Yes...the photos have been taken too far away to be able to tell if wiping had occurred. But in your second post, the very first photo, shows corrosion pitting, but no wiping. That one will wipe sooner than later! That cam needs to be replaced. I would replace the whole lot.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-14-2017, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses! Couple quick questions: 1. For the P0340, how do you check the sensor itself and what electrical reading (like ohms, voltage etc) am i looking for to make sure it's 100% functional? 2. Would better lit close-up pics of each side of the face of each lobe help anyone to make a determination if any cam lobes are wiped? I can easily do that as it would be 16 pics. 3. With that lobe being pitted and messed up beyond my reasoning, should i purchase a new set of stock rockers with say the BOE intake cam and also for good measure purchase a stock exhaust cam but no rockers just so i can start from say ground zero?

Looking to make wise decisions and not sure i need to go further than the cam and rockers at this point. I doubt i need to pull the head and do valves and springs etc. as I'd like to try and mitigate time down on this car and get it back up and running as soon as possible.

Thanks for all the help!

2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-30-2017, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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So an update as to where i am with all of this. I ended up purchasing BOE's new intake cam as well as a brand new OEM exhaust cam and new rockers from Monkeywrench for both. I figured for good measure i would start fresh with the top end of the head. I read through the Lotus manual a few times to make sure i was doing this right as this is a first time for me disassembling the head and removing cams. I've been pre-occupied with another project (restoring a 66 Mustang fastback) on top of this so this hasn't seen much attention until now.

I've gotten to a point where i have measured the valve clearances as they are in the car now before disassembly. I used the method that i have found in the engine manual to figure these out. I want to change the valve clearance measurements to the widely accepted .011" to keep the new intake cam from wiping for the future. So in searching on the forum to make sure i have done this right I came across this post: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/valve-shims-91159/. After reading through this reply 11-14 seems to say I should have come about my measurements in a different way, I should have measured between the Spring and the Valve Shim (bucket)?? Which way is the correct way to measure so that I can adjust my new cam when i install it to reach the .011"? If anyone can give me a hand with this it would be greatly appreciated. If you have pictures with explanation/procedure that would be awesome! I would like to disassemble and start the installation and order my new valve shims very soon. Stupid Photobucket changing there rules has rendered tons of images useless so hard to find good pics. I have attached a pic of what i have found with the method described in the manual also attached.

Thanks for any advice or help here. Like i said this is the first time i'm tearing down the head, but i've been working on cars for a long time. Just need a little guidance with this so i accomplish this accurately.

-Frank
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2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
2007 Exige S Phantom Black | Revised 2bular 4-1 Header, Sport CAT, and one of the last Euro Exit Exhausts | Plus too many mods to list.... (R.I.P)
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-30-2017, 04:51 PM
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This age old question that is the result of Toyota issuing two different methods thus complicating things. Technically, they both work but the one that you illustrated is measured at the small cam lobe only. I think this is fine as long as you have shims on the valve side that reads the same gap on the both big and small lobe.

What I mean by this is that if you pull the rocker to take pressure off of the cap shims and you measure the shims on both the big and small cam, the gap should be the same. If they are the same then it would be just fine to measure at the lobe. However, it is entirely possible that the measurement on the lobe side reads a desirable gap but have it vary greatly on the valve stem side since the gap on the lobe side is determined by which valve stem comes in contact with the rocker first.

Is this confusing?
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-30-2017, 06:04 PM
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Yes, your values look like you measured the valve lash correctly.

It's easiest to rotate the crankshaft so the tip of the cam is 180 opposite the shim to be measured. The instructions posted by Boosted2.0 in the thread you cited are correct, but a screwdriver isn't even necessary. You can simply lift the rocker with your finger as there's minimal spring pressure when the cam tip is pointing up.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-07-2017, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Nessal and +TSRAGR for your input and advice, very much appreciated! So I was able to take the measurements as talked about in that thread I posted between the valve shim and the rocker. You can totally just lift the rocker with your finger when the lobe is pointing straight up away from the valve shim or you can use the screw driver method at the rockers roller and lift up. Below are the measurements that i got on top of each of the valve shims on the Intake side. I drew a pic of where i took the measurement in red and the red value per lobe on the sketch corresponds to this. I started to measure the Exhaust side just to have those as well, but i don't plan on changing that side so i stopped.....for now. I just wanted to check to see if these measurements are looking right as they were almost all the same from cylinder to cylinder and small lobe to small lobe and big lobe to big lobe. I started with .008" and went up to .011" on top each valve shim on the intake side to come to these measurements.

If these measurements sound right, then awesome i did something right! So now I'm trying to get to the accepted valve lash of .011" as stated by Phil of BOE and many others. So in essence I need to turn my .005 or .006 measurement into a .011 right? So next I will get down to the valve shims and take them off of each of the valves and measure them from inside the cap to the top of the cap ("cap" meaning the valve shim). Then i follow the formula from Boosted 2.0 which was posted on that other thread:

"Step 2 - Measure your cap between the top of the bucket and the bottom of the rocker for EVERY SINGLE valve. Record those measurements as measurement A
Step 3 - Remove any shims that are not at the spec you want and measure the thickness of those shims. Record those as measurement B
Step 4 - Apply the following formula: New Shim Thickness = Old shim thickness B - (0.010" - Measured clearance A)"

So when i have made it this far I can then order my new shims and then build everything back up again and we should be good to go.

Thanks for any and all input! I will probably do a complete write up with pics for anyone attempting this as I wasn't able to find a complete begin to end guide on what to do. Hopefully it will help someone out there one day.
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2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
2007 Exige S Phantom Black | Revised 2bular 4-1 Header, Sport CAT, and one of the last Euro Exit Exhausts | Plus too many mods to list.... (R.I.P)
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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So I was hoping for a quick check on my timing and if it is set correctly. Please let me know what you think and if i'm terribly off how to possibly fix. I have seen Phils guide on the BOE website and everything seems correct except the two cam marks in relation to the valve cover. I have installed new cams and new rockers and right now i have a few of the bearing caps on just to hold the cams down to check the alignment. No chain tensioner yet so the crank position moves a little before the cams rotate.

These pics show the cams and chain and how they are aligned and the position of the crank. I think i'm really close just want someone who's been here before to let me know if i'm going to have problems when i start this baby up. Thanks for all the help!!!
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2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
2007 Exige S Phantom Black | Revised 2bular 4-1 Header, Sport CAT, and one of the last Euro Exit Exhausts | Plus too many mods to list.... (R.I.P)
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 08:56 PM
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Yup that looks good to go! I'm sure you already did but always double check to make sure all of the caps are torqued down correctly. Also if you haven't already, I would also replace the lift bolts. They are known to break. Toyota has a new version that supposedly fixes this.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 08:03 AM
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how long of a job was this?

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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how long of a job was this?
The job itself shouldn't take a super long time prob a few weeks depending on how much time you have to put into it. If you had parts in hand ready to go and had full time hours to dedicate to it you could prob. finish a cam and rocker job in less then a week.

I work a very full time job and only have a couple hours on week nights combined and then what weekends I could dedicate so for me it took a lot longer. Also i was going slow and double checking my work and following the manual to a "T", plus it was my first time through the Lotus head. Oh yea, and I have been restoring my 66 Mustang fastback at the same time from the inside out . Have had a lot going on these past few months.

Anyway it's been a great experience. Really learned a lot, I ended up going the full monty in terms of a stock rebuild. Valves, seals, retainers, springs, Cams and Rockers. Kept this head pretty much stock since it is on an S260 and I have no plans on tracking it. Opened up the gaps to prevent future wiping and put in Phils heavy duty Intake Cam. All in all everything looks great and this thing should run like a top.

2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nessal View Post
Yup that looks good to go! I'm sure you already did but always double check to make sure all of the caps are torqued down correctly. Also if you haven't already, I would also replace the lift bolts. They are known to break. Toyota has a new version that supposedly fixes this.
Thanks for the quick check Nessal! really appreciate it. Caps are torqued down correctly and in sequence . I did buy new lift bolts, not sure if they are the new ones though. I really hope so hehhe. I figured i had everything set up right but just wanted that last once over from someone outside in case i might have missed something so thanks!

2009 Exige S260 Phantom Black | Stock |
2007 Exige S Phantom Black | Revised 2bular 4-1 Header, Sport CAT, and one of the last Euro Exit Exhausts | Plus too many mods to list.... (R.I.P)
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 06:38 PM
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They should be the new one as I doubt they will still sell the older versions. I believe they actually went through a few revisions. Also some tips for others attempting to fix their cams. I would soak the rockers and camshaft in motor oil for a bit so that the oil will fill up the cavities before installing them. Oil runs through them when there is pressure in the system so you can prevent any dry start on first start up. I also got a plastic syringe and filled up the valve cover with oil right before putting it back on. This might be a bit anal but knowing that any scoring on the cams can quickly make things go down hill, it was cheap insurance in my mind.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 07:48 PM
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It looks to me like Yamaha simply made some crappy cams....has anyone tested the Rockwell hardness of these boogers from stock?
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
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It looks to me like Yamaha simply made some crappy cams....has anyone tested the Rockwell hardness of these boogers from stock?
I'm not sure if anybody ever measured, but hardness is only a small part of the tribological system which poses the issue IMO.
Add some dynamic effects and you have an entire can of woms to figure out.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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I would be happy to donate my Intake Cam if anyone thinks they could learn from it, but as I have seen and read our Cam problems are more likely an issue from a myriad of small problems from oil temps not getting high enough to too tight of a shim tolerance to just a crappy made Cam. This particular Intake Cam is probably an anomaly amongst the many that have failed out there and I have no idea how it got to this point, but glad I was able to spot it and get it out of there.

To anyone who has looked at this thread the best advice I can say is just check your Cams regardless and while you're in there replace your lift bolts. It can't hurt and only takes a short while to pull the cover off, but will be worth every minute you spent if you happen to spot a wiped Cam or a Cam that has been damaged.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 05:53 PM
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Some food for thought. If the cams are really that crappy then why is this not common on the celicas, matrix, Corollas, and vibes?
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