DMC Ultimate 2ZZ header & stock cat? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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DMC Ultimate 2ZZ header & stock cat?

Anyone know if this setup works? Or do I need to buy their sport cat? And to anyone who has that - any issues with emissions? Considering this setup for my built 2zz/rev400 engine, or to just roll with the stock headers & cat.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:46 PM
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Anyone know if this setup works? Or so I need to buy their sport cat? And to anyone who has that - any issues with emissions? Considering this setup for my built 2zz/rev400 engine, or to just roll with the stock headers & cat.
I guess it depends on if you have emmissions requirements where you're at. Here we just have to have no CELs.

Since you're matching it to a built 2ZZ/REV400 I'd ask BOE. I'm sure it will free up a few horsepower, but you'll have to deal with a louder exhaust and the attention it will bring.

I've often thought about adding a header, but the increase in volume and the additional cost of a tune to accomodate it doesn't justify the few additional ponies it would bring me.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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I guess it depends on if you have emmissions requirements where you're at. Here we just have to have no CELs.

Since you're matching it to a built 2ZZ/REV400 I'd ask BOE. I'm sure it will free up a few horsepower, but you'll have to deal with a louder exhaust and the attention it will bring.

I've often thought about adding a header, but the increase in volume and the additional cost of a tune to accomodate it doesn't justify the few additional ponies it would bring me.

San
Thanks San - I think you might be right about emissions, there's no sniffer here, just an ECU check(but they do match VIN's...which seems totally unrelated )

I didn't think about the louder exhaust - definitely want to keep things as sane as possible. My ECU is with Phil right now for a tune so I feel like if I'm doing the header upgrade, now's the time.

I've asked BOE about this....but I've been unable to get a response. I have to say, it has been incredibly painful communicating with BOE. I've had to send multiple emails, call multiple times, and eventually kick up a fuss to get any kind of response back. It has been incredibly frustrating - it's almost like they don't want my money. It seems like everyone else has had great experiences with them(my built engine is coming from an engine swap, not from BOE so this is my first time dealing with them), so I'm quite surprised.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 10:10 PM
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Thanks San - I think you might be right about emissions, there's no sniffer here, just an ECU check(but they do match VIN's...which seems totally unrelated )

I didn't think about the louder exhaust - definitely want to keep things as sane as possible. My ECU is with Phil right now for a tune so I feel like if I'm doing the header upgrade, now's the time.

I've asked BOE about this....but I've been unable to get a response. I have to say, it has been incredibly painful communicating with BOE. I've had to send multiple emails, call multiple times, and eventually kick up a fuss to get any kind of response back. It has been incredibly frustrating - it's almost like they don't want my money. It seems like everyone else has had great experiences with them(my built engine is coming from an engine swap, not from BOE so this is my first time dealing with them), so I'm quite surprised.
I'm thinking with the built motor and REV400, if you're going to run a header, you need a sport cat just to help keep the noise down, and a friendly exhaust to boot, to avoid unwanted attention. I have the BWR/BOE ST (Silent Touch) exhuast, and I think with a header it would be about right, but I would like to hear a similar setup first. I'd like to hear one in person as well. Video clips never portray an accurate sound "picture".

BOE is smokin' busy, and honestly a lot of people have the same trouble with contacting them. I'd keep trying.

I have a canned tune (Blade 300) that doesn't include a header, so I'd need a tune from BOE, and I'm just not sure I'd pick up enough to justify it. I've also been told to leave my car as it is, as my mechanic is worried that any more power will lead to problems.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking with the built motor and REV400, if you're going to run a header, you need a sport cat just to help keep the noise down, and a friendly exhaust to boot, to avoid unwanted attention. I have the BWR/BOE ST (Silent Touch) exhuast, and I think with a header it would be about right, but I would like to hear a similar setup first. I'd like to hear one in person as well. Video clips never portray an accurate sound "picture".

BOE is smokin' busy, and honestly a lot of people have the same trouble with contacting them. I'd keep trying.

I have a canned tune (Blade 300) that doesn't include a header, so I'd need a tune from BOE, and I'm just not sure I'd pick up enough to justify it. I've also been told to leave my car as it is, as my mechanic is worried that any more power will lead to problems.

San
I have that GB titanium exhaust on order too...I have a feeling this car is going to be way too loud once it's all said and done! Guess I'll find out soon I think if I did get any header I'd have a cat on there. Nicer for the environment & it'd help with sound as you mentioned.

This engine's coming with a built transmission... your mechanic is probably right about more power! And from what I'm hearing, this engine/SC is going to be so powerful that I doubt I'd miss a few hp from a header.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 03:59 AM
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I have that GB titanium exhaust on order too...I have a feeling this car is going to be way too loud once it's all said and done! Guess I'll find out soon I think if I did get any header I'd have a cat on there. Nicer for the environment & it'd help with sound as you mentioned.

This engine's coming with a built transmission... your mechanic is probably right about more power! And from what I'm hearing, this engine/SC is going to be so powerful that I doubt I'd miss a few hp from a header.
Titanium exhausts are usually loud. I have a full titanium exhaust (no cats) on my Ducati V4S and I doubt my neighbors appreciate it. With the exhaust you have on order, even with a cat, headers are going to be very loud I think. I know right before they stopped doing emissions here I was right at the edge of passing. I suspect that's because with the horsepower I'm at there's little to nothing left of the stock cat. It probably helps to keep it quiet though.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 04:37 AM
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I don't think any headers can run the stock cat

If you remove the cat you cannot run the second O2 sensor and may fail any emissions test that is beyond perfunctory.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 05:09 AM
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I don't think any headers can run the stock cat

If you remove the cat you cannot run the second O2 sensor and may fail any emissions test that is beyond perfunctory.
Correct. The stubby little stock header is too short (or DMC/Larini are too long) to run the stock cat. When you get to a blown car, the header makes a difference. Much larger primaries. The DMC is a 2 step header with closely match runners to keep the scavenging effect working. With a tune on a TVS400, +25HP is not uncommon.


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 05:49 AM
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I don't think any headers can run the stock cat

If you remove the cat you cannot run the second O2 sensor and may fail any emissions test that is beyond perfunctory.
You can remove the Cat and still run the second O2 sensor. There are some well documented tricks to make it work. I believe there are even references on this site on how to do it.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 06:30 AM
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Making it work and passing an emissions test are two entirely different things
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 06:34 AM
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Making it work and passing an emissions test are two entirely different things
Agreed. Having to pass the CEL test is easy. Having to pass this sniffer test is not. Having a Cat in a car that is tracked, is not a good idea.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting thoughts here - given that my emissions test is ECU only...it sounds like I could maybe pass it without a cat? That seems like such a failure of the purpose of an emissions test, but as with most laws & their implementation, would not be surprised if the intent of the law can be bypassed that easily.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 11:05 AM
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Removing your cat provides about zero horsepower for a street car

Again, some emissions testing is smarter than others.

I think there are several recent threads about passing emissions in a modded car
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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I would agree, if you are only going to drive the car on the street then I would put the header on with the sport Cat because it is not worth the headache. As far as track goes, it is not just about the HP gain, it has to do with the heat build up because the Cats were not designed to handle this type of use. The Cat will fail and the heat generated will cause other problems.

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