Easy Cheap Intake Mod Simple Enough for Idiots - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudboy
Exactly my point. Pull the snorkel and you're done, why waste time with a fancy funnel that most probably does nothing?
I would test it and if it works use it. Velocity stacks are NOT the same thing as Ram air, they are a proven concept and they do work. I don't know if it would work through the airbox, but it would be interesting to test it and find out.
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post #42 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Boosted2.0
I would test it and if it works use it. Velocity stacks are NOT the same thing as Ram air, they are a proven concept and they do work. I don't know if it would work through the airbox, but it would be interesting to test it and find out.

most if not all ARC airboxes have Vstacks buit into them.. Not on the outside but inside the box itself..

I once thought about retrofitting an ARC airbox I had around, but the turboxs intake came soon after..

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post #43 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 10:32 AM
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Nobody has yet addressed the issue of intake temp

My understanding is that cooler air is more important than "ram air" since cooler air holds more fuel. Removing the snorkel presumably increases intake air temp which is why Lotus put a snorkel on to begin with (as do most mfrs). I doubt there is any pressure difference on this relatively unarticulated air intake on the body, but the air temp should be significant given the removal of the snorkel puts the airbox opening in a catchment zone for engine heat. Does anyone more scientific out there have any comments?

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post #44 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by R'elise Me
My understanding is that cooler air is more important than "ram air" since cooler air holds more fuel. Removing the snorkel presumably increases intake air temp which is why Lotus put a snorkel on to begin with (as do most mfrs). I doubt there is any pressure difference on this relatively unarticulated air intake on the body, but the air temp should be significant given the removal of the snorkel puts the airbox opening in a catchment zone for engine heat. Does anyone more scientific out there have any comments?
I think the temp argument might work if the car was sitting still. The intake with the funnel is right near the opening and essentially should have the same temp air as the the snorkel. In fact the engine compartment on the Elise is pretty well ventilated to start with.

I think you guys are getting way too scientific about this mod. As the title says, "...Simple Enough for Idiots"

Seriously, I have logged the intake temp with the snorkel and without. There seems to be no change in temp for a 60 degree day. I actually did expect some change, but did not see one. I think that has to do with the flap. When it is open, it pulls the air from the engine compartment not the snorkel.
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post #45 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Ram air does work at much less than supersonic speeds.
Not really - you have to be approaching supersonic speeds to get compressible fluid flow

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Why do you think they have those big intakes above the driver's head on F1 and Indy cars?
They are no where near compressible fluid flow speeds. The big intakes about the driver's head is to get lots of air - lots of unrestricted air flow at static air pressures. A scoop can give you more air flow, but it isn't going to give you more air pressure. Now, if you have a restrictive air flow, the engine could actually pull a slight vacuum, reducing the air pressure - but that's a different matter.

In incompressible fluid flow - high pressure air will move to low pressure area. So even if you had some magical way of generating extra pressure in that big old scoop, it would simply back flow out the opening to the surrounding air.

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Basically you are increasing the inlet air density by converting the energy from the moving fluid (air) into higher pressure (and temperature) in the airbox.
Depends on your point of view (moving or not). But you are correct in that you can raise the air pressure to the static air pressure that "still air" would have. You still aren't going to get higher than that static air pressure unless you are approaching close to supersonic speeds (compressible fluid flow where, basically the air can't move to the low pressure area fast enough).

Quote:
Originally Posted by R'elise Me
My understanding is that cooler air is more important than "ram air" since cooler air holds more fuel.
Yep, and more "air" too - you get a denser charge of air/fuel.

Quote:
Removing the snorkel presumably increases intake air temp which is why Lotus put a snorkel on to begin with (as do most mfrs).
Some manufacturers use a "snorkel" to route cooler air to the intake instead of under hood air. But just as important reason is to quiet the air intake - this is one reason that the snorkel is on our engine - one, Toyota made the air box that way, and two, Lotus has to meet relatively strict European noise standards. You can't have a noisy air intake bothering the people now can you?

Quote:
but the air temp should be significant given the removal of the snorkel puts the airbox opening in a catchment zone for engine heat. Does anyone more scientific out there have any comments?
With or without the snorkel, the air box is going to get plenty of cool air from outside the engine compartment - not engine heated air. The air is flowing into the side vents, into the engine compartment, and out the vents on the engine cover. The air going over the top of the car is going to create a relatively low pressure area there that will effectively "suck" the air through. The air intake (with or without snorkel) is getting the fresh air from the side of the car, before it passes by the engine.

Now, sitting still at the light, you may get a bit warmer air, but it shouldn't be enough to notice...

Compare the Elise to a typical car where the air intake is in the engine compartment, behind the radiator. It will get significantly more heat from the radiator than it ever will from the engine. Even when moving, it still gets air that has passed through the radiator, heating it up. For those installations, a "cold air intake" (not just a K&N filter on a tube) or a snorkel that gets it's air from in front or the side of the radiator can help a lot with intake air temperature.




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post #46 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb
You will notice that there is a restriction on the amount of overlap in one corner of the stock air box which makes fitting the coupler a little tricky. I simply cut a section of the rubber coupler so it would fit better and could be secured properly.
It doesn't look like the plastic tube sticks out of the airbox far enough for the hose clamp to work very well. Seems like the assembly would be pretty easy to pull/fall off.
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post #47 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GregD
It doesn't look like the plastic tube sticks out of the airbox far enough for the hose clamp to work very well. Seems like the assembly would be pretty easy to pull/fall off.
The picture angle makes it look a little deceptive. You do have enough of a lip to get the clamp on. I have been checking the assembly for a few days now and it is still rock solid. It's easy to check by simply putting your hands through the side vent and attempt to wiggle it.
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post #48 of 210 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 09:34 AM
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I'm pretty sure Bernoulli still applies.
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post #49 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 05:43 PM
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This was easy!

Went to Autozone and picked up the parts for about $23.00

I still happened to have the air box from my old Elise so I mocked up the intake.

Now all I have to do is pop off the wheel, wheel arch liner, install the green filter, remove the filter and bolt this on.

Can't wait to hear it!

Regards,

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post #50 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 06:46 PM
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I may pick up a 45 degree silicone coupler this weekend and I'll report back how the placement of the intake in relation to the side vent works out.

Later,

Qball.
post #51 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 07:14 PM
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Makes an excellent trumpet!
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post #52 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 07:57 PM
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Definitely ditch the snorkel at least!

I didn't bother with this (sorta mickey mouse) velocity "thing", but I did yank the snorkel. First of all, it's really great for keeping road dirt out of the intake. I found sand in the air box and the snorkel when I went to remove it. The car had never seen the dirt so it had to be vaccuuming it off the front tire wake. After dtiching the snorkel I took the car for an impromtu spin on the track shoulder then proceeded to pit to clean the car of any loose gravel (so many shelves on the car I didn't want to mess up the track). I checked the airbox since I had to remove the wheel to clean a lot of gravel out and it was clean. Moral: ditch the snorkel. It adds a crude intake noise to the 2nd cam but it keeps the airbox cleaner. As for the velocity stack - anyone have a dyno to prove it's worth the hassle?

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post #53 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-06-2006, 11:31 PM
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All this work for what?
Please post the hp gained on the same dyno and same car with and without snorkel.
:-)
Are them > at 1hp?

P.s. my snorkel had the tendence to do not stay in side, it jumped away very easy so it could be a nice excuse to ban it forever...

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post #54 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman-
All this work for what?
Please post the hp gained on the same dyno and same car with and without snorkel.
:-)
Are them > at 1hp?

P.s. my snorkel had the tendence to do not stay in side, it jumped away very easy so it could be a nice excuse to ban it forever...
So why don't you do that? It's $30 in parts and the time for the dyno.
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post #55 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 04:07 AM
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I'm lazy.

1) thake the jack
2) raise the car
3) toggle wheel and arch
4) go on amazon and buy the 2 items - to do before obviusly
5) cut whit scissors the cone rubber
6) fit the items
7) refit all
8) try it

No no too much work.


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post #56 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 05:49 AM
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Well... supposedly according to Randy and Scottyb, the CAI actually lose power after the ECU has adjusted, with the exception of gaining a nice sound.

This mod actually doesn't lose power or helps with +1 or +2, but then you still gain the sound.

Supposedly removing the snorkel helps more on the SC cars than the regular cars.

If anything... it doesn't hurt!
post #57 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qball
Well... supposedly according to Randy and Scottyb, the CAI actually lose power after the ECU has adjusted, with the exception of gaining a nice sound.

This mod actually doesn't lose power or helps with +1 or +2, but then you still gain the sound.

Supposedly removing the snorkel helps more on the SC cars than the regular cars.

If anything... it doesn't hurt!
Great new avatar today qball.

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post #58 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 06:19 AM
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I did it with the velocity stack and a 45 degree elbow. It was a pita to get the airbox to close and to index the notch in the coupler to avoid interference between clam and fancy funnel. It has good clearance with the 45 and seems plenty secure once the notch is correct. The fuzzy snorkel is just an intake silencer. If Lotus had been concerned about intake temperatures they would have disabled the auxilary flap in the closed position.
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post #59 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 06:47 AM
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The intake modification naysayers will tell you that increased airflow, colder air, etc. is all for naught as the Lotus ECU quickly adjusts for these changes and presumably changes the air-fuel mixture so the net result is zero.
I'm not certain I believe this. There are a number of vendors on this board
who sell CAI's that have dyno graphs showing improved hp. I suspect this controversy will never be resolved.
I, for one, am a believer in breathing mods for more NA hp, FWIW.

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post #60 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimK
The intake modification naysayers will tell you that increased airflow, colder air, etc. is all for naught as the Lotus ECU quickly adjusts for these changes and presumably changes the air-fuel mixture so the net result is zero.
I'm not certain I believe this. There are a number of vendors on this board
who sell CAI's that have dyno graphs showing improved hp. I suspect this controversy will never be resolved.
I, for one, am a believer in breathing mods for more NA hp, FWIW.
The Ecu definitely adjusts the air fuel ratio depending on the intake temp. I saw this when I saw this when I spoofed the intake temp sensor going to the ECU.
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