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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Harmonic Damper

I was recently doing some work and I snapped the picture below... At the time I was doing it to get a good picture of the timing mark, but I've since noticed that it shows that the rubber in my harmonic damper shows some cracking.

I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this, an how scary it looks to them. My current guess is that this is something that should be addressed at some point, sooner being better, but not cause to ground the car and start missing races since none of the other symptoms listed here are evident.

I've done some reading and some sources say that these things can wear out after 10ish years, some sources have much more frequent rebuild intervals for high power engines (they are talking about 500hp stuff, so probably not me).

So far I've found 2 options:

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/p...us-a120e6198s/
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ota-4-cylinder

Is there real benefit to the ATI one, and are there other options?

Finally, I don't see any install threads, and so far the you tube vids I've come across are all for big engines, some with external weighting to balance the rotating assembly... which is very unlike our engine. Any good advice on how to do this?


2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 02:44 PM
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I would paint mark it at the very least to see if it moves. It doesn't look like it has moved yet, however.

I haven't actually done a damper on the 2ZZ, but it doesn't look harder than any other transverse engine based on the engine having a chain and a keyed crank/crank sprocket.

It's the keyless cranks that are really difficult.

I have an ATI damper on a Mustang, but the main reason for doing that was to add a dry sump system.

I would guess that replacement looks like:
remove fender inner liner
loosen the damper bolt with a good impact wrench
jack under the accessory tensioner
remove the accessory belt
remove the damper bolt
use a puller, if necessary, to remove the damper or get it started coming off
push the new one on
find the torque spec
install the bolt
have the car in gear, clutch out and someone with their foot on the brake
torque to spec

Last edited by Roundabout; 03-08-2018 at 03:34 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds logical, wonder about the working room for the impact wrench.

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 09:33 PM
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IMHO this is the best one out there The Original Fluidampr

I think that ATI was the first one out there building competition/aftermarket harmonic dampers, therefore they got the name/notoriety. It is actually a very good rubber and/or sprag damper and it works...but not as good as a fluid damper. A hydraulic damper is just much better than any rubber just because a fluid has very little shear strength...even negligible in those quantities.

I'm sure that if you would proposition Fluidampr, they would do something for us. I'd go in on one. Group buy?

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine.gun.kelly View Post
IMHO this is the best one out there The Original Fluidampr

I think that ATI was the first one out there building competition/aftermarket harmonic dampers, therefore they got the name/notoriety. It is actually a very good rubber damper and it works...but not as good as a fluid damper. A hydraulic damper is just much better than any rubber just because a fluid has very little shear strength...even negligible in those quantities.

I'm sure that if you would proposition Fluidampr, they would do something for us. I'd go in on one. Group buy?
Yeah ran across them in my searches, but they don't seem to have a 2zz product... sent an initial query, not sure if I have the time to coordinate a group buy though. On the other hand, with Many Loti (and other 2zz's) reaching an age where this part may be wearing out, maybe they will have some interest.
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2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 05:01 AM
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I wouldn't worry about the cracking at all. It's 99.99% likely just superficial surface cracking.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 05:59 AM
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lotus90 View Post
Yup...that is the ATI Super Damper this thread is about.

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
I wouldn't worry about the cracking at all. It's 99.99% likely just superficial surface cracking.
Yeah, I'm not considering it an emergency, but I am putting it on my maintenance items list. As much as that is probably true, it becomes hard to know when things do go south, and if the age of the rubber is reducing it's effectiveness, there might be some small gains replacing it.

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm took another photo specifically looking at the damper rubber... hmm.
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2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 12:32 PM
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meh
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fsparv View Post
Hmm took another photo specifically looking at the damper rubber... hmm.
It has lived its life. It's time for a new one. That one is not working like it should be.
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Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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Fluidampr didn't respond to the possibility of a group buy and doesn't make one for the 2zz. ATI it is.

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by fsparv View Post
Fluidampr didn't respond to the possibility of a group buy and doesn't make one for the 2zz. ATI it is.
That is a very good damper...it is much better than the OEM damper. You make it sound like like you're stuck with ATI. That's kind of like saying that you are stuck with Nitrons for your car when you know that there are Penskes out there. Nitrons are way better than any OEM choices...including Ohlins. The ATI Super Damper is a big improvement over the OEM damper, especially when it looks like yours does.

With your damper looking like it does, I'd get an ATI Super Damper ASAFP and not wait for Fluidampr to respond...then manufacture a damper for the 2ZZ, if at all. That could take a year or more to get a Fluidampr and your damper needs attention sooner than later.

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...

Last edited by machine.gun.kelly; 03-11-2018 at 03:57 AM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by machine.gun.kelly View Post
That is a very good damper...it is much better than the OEM damper. You make it sound like like you're stuck with ATI. That's kind of like saying that you are stuck with Nitrons for your car when you know that there are Penskes out there. Nitrons are way better than any OEM choices...including Ohlins. The ATI Super Damper is a big improvement over the OEM damper, especially when it looks like yours does.

With your damper looking like it does, I'd get an ATI Super Damper ASAFP and not wait for Fluidampr to respond...then manufacture a damper for the 2ZZ, if at all. That could take a year or more to get a Fluidampr and your damper needs attention sooner than later.
Nice to hear that opinion, my previous post was immediately post order . I didn't mean to sound like I thought ATI wasn't good.

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift

Last edited by fsparv; 03-11-2018 at 10:45 AM. Reason: typo
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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The manual specifies an SST for holding the pulley while tightening/loosening. I notice that two of the holes on it are threaded, but there's lots of crud in the threads. It seems to be M8 size, but the m8 I have only goes in about half a turn, which could be either fine threads or the crud...
Doesn't look like enough room in there for an impact tool... One could put it in 6th and engage the parking brake right, wife assist if the parking brake not enough?

Not entirely sure if that's good for the transmission though. Was recommended for re-install above on generic vehicles but breakaway tq will be higher... and the sst in the manual makes me think toyota didn't like that idea (though maybe because it involves a second mechanic?)

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 01:21 PM
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You won't harm the transmission by doing that. It can handle significantly more torque than you can dish out.

If I recall correctly, it is an M8...definitely no fine threads in there. Try cleaning out the threads with a penetrant oil. A 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone works the best.

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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