MWR Elise V330 - 3.5L V6 330hp NA Elise - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #61 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 04:51 PM
Registered User
 
Hello Kitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,837
What about drive by wire?
Hello Kitty is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 05:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Slidell, La
Posts: 134
Unless this comes as a kit (and I would source the engine & ecu myself) im not interested.
Genomaxter is offline  
post #63 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Kitty View Post
What about drive by wire?
Absolutely not a problem. The V6 happens to be drive by wire which simplifies things a bit. We've got a setup already figured out for both the 05 and 06+ cars.
Monkeywrench is offline  
 
post #64 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
I've been giving some consideration to the dash. We're currently running he stock dash and it works ok but I've had some racers asking about aftermarket digital dashes recently. Some of these have datalogging, track mapping, and multiple display options. We can port the CAN data directly from the V6 ECU to a digital dash and have access to all kinds of information. It would simplify the wiring pretty significantly.

A basic dash would probably add around $1200-1500 (installed), a deluxe dash with logging and other options probably double that. Is this something that many of you would be interested as part of this swap?

Last edited by SirLotus; 06-09-2010 at 12:04 PM.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #65 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKSteveo2 View Post
As a potential customer of MWR what reassurances can you give me that my brand new 2010 Exige will not end up with poor workmanship
All on-topic questions are welcome. I'm more than happy to address this question; I think it's an important one and it was one factor that guided the development of this project.

1. MWR has over the past couple of years acquired three Lotus test cars. We now do all prototyping, testing and validation of every new part we develop on our own cars on our own dime long before the parts will ever see a customer car. I drive on our parts every day which allows for constant evaluation and optimization. Since we opened in 1999 we've always tested our 1zz/2zz engine parts on our own Toyota cars- now all of that testing is done in actual Lotus cars with Lotus engine management systems and Lotus electrical systems to ensure no compatibility issues. It's a huge expense but it is the only way to ensure everything is right. It is simply the only way that a swap like this can be tested and refined.

2. The V6 test car is on hand here at the shop. Anyone interested in the swap is more than welcome to stop by and check it out. Look at the detail. Kick the tires. I'll even give you a ride in it. Sorry, our insurance doesn't allow for customer test drives

3. I think the V6 swap is really unique in that it is essentially an untouched OEM engine (with some bolt-ons) with OEM engine management. That means there are no aftermarket engine management issues, drivability quirks, poor fuel economy issues, etc. This is an engine/transmission combo that is designed to go 200k miles or more. It is smooth and completely tame in daily driving.

4. We will be offering a guarantee. We're still evaluating the exact terms of the guarantee because we've never offered a comprehensive warranty before but it will be in place before the first customer V6 install. Most shops do not have any sort of written guarantee on a job like this but I think it's important that we do.

I really believe in this swap for its simplicity, reliability and performance.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #66 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 09:34 AM
FIL
Registered User
 
FIL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,269
Okay, the horsepower gain seems meaningless compared to VF or TVS given the amount of work it takes to get it.

The torque is impressive, but is it useable? Doesn't seem like it would hook on such a light car.

IMHO you'd have to be crazy to do this. You are basically turning a well engineered car into a kit car, but without the R&D and workmanship behind a Noble or Rossion. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of modding, but this is just nuts. Unless you are rich and don't care about reliability.

05' Elise - REV400, PPE Header, Quaife LSD, Ohlins, BOE Silent Touch, LETSLA, ACT HDSS, Fidanza flywheel, BOE CAB Intake, BOE Catch Can, V2 Fuel Tank, V2 Steering Arms, BWR sway bar, ForcedFed CF splitter, Manly's engine mounts, All Mesh Grilles, Volk CE28 wheels
FIL is offline  
post #67 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIL View Post
Okay, the horsepower gain seems meaningless compared to VF or TVS given the amount of work it takes to get it.

The torque is impressive, but is it useable? Doesn't seem like it would hook on such a light car.
I think it's a matter of taste. A lot of people like the response, simplicity and reliability of an NA engine especially in a track car. No more heat soak issues. I sold a built 2ZZ engine this morning to a customer who got an aftermarket supercharger kit (bought elsewhere) installed by his local shop and blew his ring lands off his stock pistons in 3000 kilometers due to heat or tuning.

Transmission is another factor. If you're at 275+whp with a supercharges 2ZZ and are driving it hard on the track you're going to shred a stock transmission sooner or later. Probably sooner. This swap brings with it a very strong and proven transmission.

The torque is very usable. It's all about transmission ratios. Maybe you're exiting corners at 4k now as opposed to 6k with a 2ZZ. The broader, flatter power curve is the important thing. Instead of rowing the gears madly to keep inside a narrow power band you can now power out of the corners at a lower RPM. And because it's NA the throttle is really easy to modulate if it does exceed the traction available.

We're not by any means turning our back on the 2ZZ. That will continue to be the most popular option and we've got a few projects going for that engine right now. That is the focus of our blue Elise.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #68 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
The car is available for anyone to look at. For powertrain fitment and layout the car is excellent. We use a factory wiring harness. ECU is mounted safely inside the car. We'll soon be fitting a lighter, simpler exhaust and testing that thoroughly for durability. I really don't want to oversell this thing. 3rd party reviews are the most valuable evidence. It's exactly what some people are looking for and we're already talking to a couple of people seriously about doing swaps soon. I'll be sure to get reviews from them after the swaps are completed.

Last edited by Monkeywrench; 06-09-2010 at 12:36 PM.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #69 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11
MWR,

What Factory ECU are you using?

I swapped the 2GRFE into my MR2 Spyder. I am using a 2006 Rav4 ECU.

It is making 271 rwhp 248 ftlb on a Dynojet, on 91 octane with all 3 catalytic convertors.

I am asking because I would eventually like to switch to the Lotus ECU for 2 reasons: Higher redline and CA Smog legality (M/T ECU).

I can tell you guys, coming from a similar platform (MRS with 2GR), nothing beats this setup in terms of drivability! It is amazing. I used to have a 292 rwhp Rotrex SC'd completely built 1zz. That was nice, but this is much better.

Revving clip:
uspspro is offline  
post #70 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
I have seen some information on your swap. We're doing a very similar one right now on a 2000 Spyder. Definite kudos for going after the Cali emissions legality. Funny, I thought that would be one of the first questions asked in this thread. Our current Lotus system has no cats so it's obviously not compliant. May look at that in the future.

Right now I believe we're using the same ECU that you are. We're planning to tweak that setup for higher rev limit very soon. I don't know if I believe there is much power advantage in the 2011 Evora ECU but we're sure going to investigate. There may also be immobiliser issues.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #71 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 07:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeywrench View Post
Right now I believe we're using the same ECU that you are. We're planning to tweak that setup for higher rev limit very soon. I don't know if I believe there is much power advantage in the 2011 Evora ECU but we're sure going to investigate. There may also be immobiliser issues.
Interesting, I'm guessing you got the evora engine as a package but the evora ecu didn't work due to the immobilizer? then you used a rav4 non immobilizer ecu?

I feel like the evora ecu would be really good due to the difficultly and cost of a standalone ecu. Also the evora ecu has a sport mode which raises the redline to 7k and increases throttle response. I just wonder how much it would cost to source the ecu and how to get it working without the immobilizer and you'd have to creatively wire it up so "sport mode" is always selected...

Here is a article I remember reading about the sport mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmunds
Despite the engine's rather humble origins, performance is just as lively as we expected from a modern Lotus. Throttle response was immediate and power was spread evenly from idle to the 6,600-rpm redline. Selecting Sport mode raises the sustained maximum revs to 7,000 rpm (7,200 rpm for brief instances) and allows for a bit more slip angle and wheel slippage before the stability control intervenes — it also sharpens throttle response, but not to a noticeable degree.
2010 Lotus Evora Test Drive on Edmunds.com

From the dyno it looks like the horsepower just keeps climbing and its begging to be revved higher.
Levi is offline  
post #72 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Registered User
 
ads_green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 677
Can the graphs be done with the stock exige 240's curves not affected by the scale?
(I've always hated graphs where the torque and power don't cross at 5250)
ads_green is offline  
post #73 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-10-2010, 02:13 AM
Registered User
 
DarkMousy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12
I'm interested in this:

Quote:
Engine management is a factory ECU right now. There are not many aftermarket ECUs that will handle 4 VVT's. I'm working on a couple of very promising systems though so we'll have some tuning capability by next week.
From what I've gathered, away from a motec and some other far more obscure Aussie systems I haven't found anything that handles the 4 VVT's. You guys aren't far away either (I'm in Ontario, Canada) so it goes without saying; Subscribed!
DarkMousy is offline  
post #74 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-10-2010, 03:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,826
Also I would love to see a picture of how your are integrating with the factory harness. Our cars because of the nature of the suspension, are subject to an abusive bumpy ride. I would like to know more info on how the harness is integrated and the quality of the connectors or soldering used. Chasing electrical gremlins is no fun, especially with our lucas wiring.

Finally, if after delivery of the vehicle, if the owner is not happy with the work or quality of it performed, what are is/her options?

Last edited by SirLotus; 06-10-2010 at 12:53 PM.
scottyb is offline  
post #75 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-10-2010, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
Currently we're running an OEM wiring harness so there is no wiring/soldering/crimping involved whatsoever between the engine and ECU. All factory weather-tight stuff. The body-side wiring is all sealed and inside the car where it is well protected.

We'll definitely be evaluating the new Evora ECU as soon as we can get it. It's only one potential option though. We'll get to 7k on a stock engine and 8k on the built engine, it's just a matter of which way to do it.

As I mentioned, there will be a warranty on the installs we do. Our demo car will be available before any work is done for inspection of the appearance of the package.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #76 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-10-2010, 08:42 AM
Registered User
 
MaineLotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,945
Any pics of the engine mounts?

My car is modified.
www.lotussport.org
MaineLotus is offline  
post #77 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PDX
Posts: 124
do mr2 owners get a discount?
Seth W is offline  
post #78 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-11-2010, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 362
We'll be peparing an entire set of hardware soon and will get pics of it all. The stuff on this car is painted rather than powder coated, etc.
Monkeywrench is offline  
post #79 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-11-2010, 09:35 PM
Registered User
 
Elige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: El Ayy
Posts: 1,561
please post a video of this thing on the road asap!

05 graphite grey elige with zero mods.....sold
Elige is offline  
post #80 of 334 (permalink) Old 06-12-2010, 05:04 AM
Registered User
 
TroyLotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 256
Amazing. I am doing a 1Mz swap in a MR2 right now. This is just perfect. I can not wait for a parts kit to come out.

2005 Elise -LR,SP,HT,T, Trueleo LETSLA, Custom larger side scoops, Custom side skirts, Exige grills, Stage II exhaust, FF splitter, Air2Gel seat foam, Stripes, Eliminator, BWR SC kit, Fidanza flywheel, ACT HD, Custom SC headers, Custom PPE header, Custom 3" exhaust with Borla muffler, Difflow Railer jr, Direzza star specs, R4S pads
TroyLotus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome