Superchargers, Turbos, & Nitrous for the 2ZZ-GE - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-12-2004, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
aletes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 677
Superchargers, Turbos, & Nitrous for the 2ZZ-GE

If the Lotus Elise had no trunk, these engine upgrades just might fit.


Trial Supercharger for 2ZZ-GE

http://www.trial.co.jp/trial-usa/ori...a/zzt231sc.htm]


Blitz Supercharger for 2ZZ-GE

http://www.blitz-na.com/Blitz_Comp_Celica.htm




Turbo Technics Supercharger

Although the Turbo Technics supercharger is not for the 2ZZ-GE, it is the right size to fit in the Lotus Elise engine compartment. It might work well with some engine modifications from Monkey Wrench Racing.

http://www.turbotechnics.com
http://www.turbotechnics.com/supercharger/expo.htm
http://www.turbotechnics.com/cars/TT230.htm




XS Engineering Turbo for 2ZZ-GE

http://www.xs-engineering.com/index....nav=subnav.jsp




Nitrous Links

Nitrous Oxide 101

http://www.modacar.com/products/Toyota/Celica/MODANIO/


I have come to the conclusion that while the 2ZZ-GE is an excellent engine, it really lacks good tuning options. A Honda VTEC would have been a much better choice.


Mr. Gasket - The Beast GX20 Honda Crate Engine (Naturally Aspirated - 270 BHP)

Last edited by aletes; 11-13-2004 at 12:20 PM.
aletes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 12:11 AM
Registered User
 
NevB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 100
The big problem is getting sufficient airflow across that intercooler.

You might also need to upgrade the front radiator and install some electric fans in the boot to pump hot air out of the engine bay.

Heat generation is a *big* problem with FI midengine config.

Ardent Red 111R
Touring Pack
Black OZ Motorsport Wheels
NevB is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
aletes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 677
The Turbo Technics supercharger kit (for the Rover engine) addresses the heat issues with a charge-cooler radiator and oil cooler mounted in the front clamshell.


Last edited by aletes; 06-13-2004 at 01:32 AM.
aletes is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 12:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 159
the problem with mounting the intercooler in the front clamshell is the amount of distance the air will have to travel to reach the engine. This is not a huge deal with a supercharger but if there is a turbo in the mix this could be a deal breaker. I will increase lag by a good bit making the turbo potentally suck.
del105 is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 12:48 PM
shay2nak
 
shay2nak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calipornia
Posts: 24,900
how much is the Mr. Gasket "the beast?"

damn 1.8L 270 hp NA. sign me up. It will be heavier than the 2zz, but you'll be getting 30-40 more HP than if you were to FI the toyota engine.

Damn, 270....i didn't see the inclusion of a transmission?

** save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp ** EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs)

'07 Lotus Exige S310


WTC 2
shay2nak is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
aletes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally posted by shay2nak
how much is the Mr. Gasket "the beast?"

damn 1.8L 270 hp NA. sign me up. It will be heavier than the 2zz, but you'll be getting 30-40 more HP than if you were to FI the toyota engine.

Damn, 270....i didn't see the inclusion of a transmission?
No transmission, intake, or exhaust are included with the GX20 engine. Plus, you would need a Honda conversion kit.

Mr. Gasket - GSport
"The Beast" GX20 Crate Engine
Long Block $11,900
Short Block $7,900

Last edited by aletes; 11-13-2004 at 12:22 PM.
aletes is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 09:46 PM
shay2nak
 
shay2nak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calipornia
Posts: 24,900
Quote:
Originally posted by aletes
Long Block $11,900
Short Block $7,900

No transmission, headers, or manifold are included. Plus, you would need a Prototype Racing Honda conversion kit at $6,800.
you'll end up over 25k easily. Forget it...even though the Elise will kick total ass and be hella unique. power to weight ratio of a Z06.

** save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp ** EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs)

'07 Lotus Exige S310


WTC 2
shay2nak is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 10:43 PM
Registered User
 
Arno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by del105
the problem with mounting the intercooler in the front clamshell is the amount of distance the air will have to travel to reach the engine. This is not a huge deal with a supercharger but if there is a turbo in the mix this could be a deal breaker. I will increase lag by a good bit making the turbo potentally suck.
No, this is not an air-air intercooler, but an air-water-air chargecooler, so the air does not travel all the way to the front...

On the engine side there's a heat exchanger, then a water circuit (separate from the cooling system) to transport the heat to the front and a radiator/heat exchanger under the normal radiator.

Look at the Lotus Esprit turbo's. They always used this solution and it is basically the *only* real solution to cooling compressed intake air on a mid-engined car.

Regular air-air intercoolers mounted in/around the engine bay in a mid-engined car will always be severely compromised in their effectiveness as they are not in enough airflow.

Bye, Arno.
Arno is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-22-2004, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
aletes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally posted by shay2nak
how much is the Mr. Gasket "the beast?"

damn 1.8L 270 hp NA. sign me up. It will be heavier than the 2zz, but you'll be getting 30-40 more HP than if you were to FI the toyota engine.

Damn, 270....i didn't see the inclusion of a transmission?
If you are set on an engine swap and would like to save a little money, you would be better off buying a "complete" Honda K20A and having it performance tuned. There are many tuning options for the K20A that could bring NA horsepower up to 270 HP.

The 2ZZ-GE can take a little boost as long as you use the right spark plugs and 91 octane fuel (or higher). Based on all I have read, the best you are going to safely get from the 2ZZ-GE with FI and no internal engine modifications is 260 HP. Although, higher boost can be achived if you harden the engine internals and lower the compression.

Last edited by aletes; 11-13-2004 at 12:24 PM.
aletes is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2004, 07:08 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally posted by aletes
If you are set on an engine swap and would like to save a little money, you would be better off buying a "complete" Honda K20A and having it performance tuned. There are many tuning options for the K20A that could bring NA horsepower up to 230 to 270 HP. A couple tuning options can be found at the TODA Racing and Hondata websites.

On the other hand, you could explore your options with the 2ZZ-GE by taking it to a tuner like Advanced Engine Breathing Systems (AEBS).

The 2ZZ-GE can take a little boost as long as you use the right spark plugs and 91 octane fuel (or higher). Based on all I have read, the best you are going to safely get from the 2ZZ-GE with FI and no internal engine modifications is 240 HP. Although, higher boost can be achived if you harden the engine internals and lower the compression.

At this point, I think the only viable FI option for the Lotus Elise is the Turbo Technics supercharger package.
Or you can get a TRD crate engine for $8500, 230hp
Trial USA stroked 3zz crate engine for $5500, 220hp

+ PowerFC tuned 10hp.
nyoneway is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2004, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
aletes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 677
Here is some info on Nitrous for those interested ...

Zex Wet Nitrous Kit



According to many Toyota 2ZZ owners out there, no more than 55HP boost should be used with stock internals and tuning.
aletes is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-28-2004, 11:42 AM
Registered User
 
iwilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pukekohe, New Zealand
Posts: 495
You're forgeting one thing the intake of the Toyota faces the firewall not the boot. The K20A can take a supercharger (in the S1 at least) - so maybe it will fit on the Toyota (no doubt someone will try). As an owner of a Honda powered Elise provided by Prototype I would be wary of parting with any cash. There are issues with the kit and with the power claims. But the engine itself is a real gem and will gobble up Toyota powered Elises all day long
iwilson is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-05-2004, 12:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin, TX y'all
Posts: 228
Centrifugal blowers are only going to make reasonable power from 4,000 on, and good power from 6,000 on. Your low end tq will see little to no benefit. Given the compression ratio of the motor, you'll be looking at a 6psi kit, which is good for a whopping 2psi at 4,000 rpm.

You'll add lots of heat to the motor, will likely need extra cooling capacity in form of a better radiator and a second oil cooler for long term reliability, all while deviating from the subtle throttle response that Lotus designed into the car, which plays a role in handling at the limit.

Nitrous properly managed would be fine, but unusable where the Elise is in its element, backcountry roads and the track.

Just my opinion of course. I'd be more interested in a crate motor.
frayed is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-09-2004, 12:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orlando / Pembroke Pines, FL
Posts: 19
I always thought the 2ZZ was a great engine to build up N/A. Others have said the head on the engine seems to flow so well that it's just asking for boost. Cams, standalone ECU, port/polish, higher C/R, ITB's, stoker-kit. all this should work fine with the lotus, maybe w/ the exception of the ITB's.. would have to see how they fit in there.

2002 Toyota Celica GT-S
ZZforums.net - Performance and Technical Site for the Toyota ZZ engine series

analogvoid is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 09:02 PM
Registered User
 
Trendy Exige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 719
Question

Does anyone on this forum own the 2zz-ge Trial Headers for the Lotus ???

If so, have you experienced any performance gain with it? I am wondering if it would beneficial to have it on a supercharged Exige? Its necessary for any supercharged Lotus to have bigger piping on the headers than a NA Lotus, correct?
Trendy Exige is offline  
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
carlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bristol, TN
Posts: 1,380
sorry for not having an answer to your question, I just had to comment that this is likely the deadest thread ever resurrected! One page, and last post was july 2004!
carlover is offline  
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Registered User
 
Icedog_16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlover View Post
sorry for not having an answer to your question, I just had to comment that this is likely the deadest thread ever resurrected! One page, and last post was july 2004!
+1 If not the deadest, it's definitely in the running.

With respect to the header, I would think that if it were readily available or offered appreciable gains there would be a number of threads on it, considering that there is quite a number of pioneers on this forum. As there are very few, I'd think I'd look for other options. But, then again, I could be wrong.
Icedog_16 is offline  
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 11:30 PM
Registered User
 
Trendy Exige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 719
Talking

Yes, I know its an old thread. So I've decided to start a separate thread about this under the "Drivetrain" section (forced induction).

I am curious whether there has been an improvement on the OEM header that comes in the forced induction Lotus like my Exige S. I wanted to know what the diameter of the piping is and if it has been increased on FI cars. If so, it might be pointless to go with an aftermarket header since most of the aftermarket header were designed for naturally aspirated Lotus and perhaps the Lotus Exige S may have have bigger pipings on the header.
Trendy Exige is offline  
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 05:21 AM
Registered User
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,673
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
Johnny B is offline  
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:21 AM
00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
 
GTsRasta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendy Exige View Post
Does anyone on this forum own the 2zz-ge Trial Headers for the Lotus ???

If so, have you experienced any performance gain with it? I am wondering if it would beneficial to have it on a supercharged Exige? Its necessary for any supercharged Lotus to have bigger piping on the headers than a NA Lotus, correct?
Search (on the lowly newcelica.org econobox forum) and ye shall find...

Before and after the installation and tuning of the Trial header on a Greddy Supercharged GTS (same shorty header):

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227690

Before:


After:


But for the price on sites like kinwaymotorsports.com or japanparts.com...the larger primaries more suited for supercharging doesn't make the price worth it when you're right under the price of the PPE race header Dave used to hit 248 whp with only a 3.2" pulley and standalone ECU tuning. Plus without a custom tune, you can't make most of the header, and even Boosted2.0's $155 stock ported header service has been known to provide better all around and more consistant gains for an unbeatable price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
Maybe you should put a disclaimer in your sig saying that you don't have a Lotus nor have tried any of the products you are constantly posting about.
Old: 2003 Toyota Celica GT-S, 6 Speed Manual, Carbon Blue...RIP <=(
NEW: 2000 Toyota MR2-Spyder, 2ZZ-GE + 6 Speed Swap, Solar Yellow
GTsRasta is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome