Another engine rumor (turbo) - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Another engine rumor (turbo)

This article over at Pistonheads talks about Lotus Engineering's work in the field of low displacement turbocharged cars, this is something they're really advocating according to the article. They're plan on having a 1.7l powerplant in a 'demonstrator vehicle' within 12 months. While the vehicle will probably be an Elise (logical choice for their goals), whether or not that becomes the S3 is questionable (probably not).
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 09:45 AM
 
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I'd prefer a small displacement turbo over high revving engine any day... the turbo powerplant simply makes a better compromise for track/road car. I'm not gonna keep the Elise in 6000rpm every corner i take. The VX Turbo in UK already beaten cars like 911 in the straight line and easily keep up with the 911 Turbo in straight too
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 11:38 AM
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I'd rather have a normally aspirated engine over one with forced induction any day. Turbos are fun, but they are often problematic and have that horrid lag that simply cannot be overcome (well, ok, there are ways, but I can almost guarantee you that they won't make it into a production car).

I think the Elise would be a lot of fun with a turbo until you tried to get on the power mid-corner with only 1900 lbs holding you down - almost all of it being on the outside wheels.

I, too, will not be tooling around at 6K rpm, but I'll hold off my judgement of lack-luster bottom-end until we find out what Lotus has done to the engine they decide to put in.

Last edited by BrianK; 05-15-2003 at 01:18 PM.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrianK
I think the Elise would be a lot of fun with a turbo until you tried to get on the power mid-corner with only 1900 lbs holding you down - almost all of it being on the outside wheels.
That's my concern with them using the 2zz. Hit "lift" coming out of a turn and how much control are you going to have with that kind of change in power? I mean, look at the transition point on this stock GT-S: http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/jesse%20il/pic1.jpg
I'd be less afraid of a small, quick spooling turbo. It could have a smoother onset and with it spooling up at low RPMs, it would become routine for the driver. A supercharger would be even better stock, although it would have less appeal for tuners.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ya hachu
That's my concern with them using the 2zz. Hit "lift" coming out of a turn and how much control are you going to have with that kind of change in power? I mean, look at the transition point on this stock GT-S: http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/jesse%20il/pic1.jpg
I'd be less afraid of a small, quick spooling turbo. It could have a smoother onset and with it spooling up at low RPMs, it would become routine for the driver. A supercharger would be even better stock, although it would have less appeal for tuners.
You're preaching to the chior as far as the torque curve on the 2ZZ goes (look at my posts in the powertrain section on various dyno curves for possible engines). That said, I don't think a turbo is the answer. Sure, you can get used to it, but remeber that there will *always* be lag with a turbo, every time you shift, every time you lift, or any time your foot isn't on the gas, you'll have to wait for it to spool - punch it.... wait... go like hell. The alternative is possibly having to deal with a steep torque curve, but at least you'll know *exactly* what it's going to do based on the engine note at the time you do it.

Maybe I just have a bad taste in my mouth about turbos after having an RX7 twin turbo. It went like stink but was a bit unpredictable and hugely unreliable with the turbo. After owning that car, I told myself I'd never own another turbo charged car. *That* said, if the Elise hits our shores with a snail behind the headers, I won't be too terribly upset.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-15-2003, 06:39 PM
 
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With today's technology the turbo lag is almost non existent if tuned right. Audi's turbo cars provide maximum torque as early as 1900rpm.

Elise doesn't need a drag car's turbo, just a very small efficient dual ball-bearings turbo that spools at below 2000rpm. just 6-8psi is needed and boom, you have a very smooth and flat torque curve.

a Lysholm twin screw type supercharger might be a good choice too but then turbo will be a better suited to a small displacement
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-16-2003, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by burburlulu
With today's technology the turbo lag is almost non existent if tuned right. Audi's turbo cars provide maximum torque as early as 1900rpm.
That is true, and even though this is becoming a dead horse, I'll beat it once more by saying that my point isn't how fast you can make a turbo hit maximum efficiency. My point is that, with a turbo, every time you remove your foot from the gas pedal and the turbo spools down, when you put your foot back on the pedal you have to wait for it to spool back up before you go anywhere.

Again, if it comes with one, I won't be disappointed. If I had my druthers, I'd rather see a Honda K20 in the engine bay than a turbo charged anything.

A supercharger, on the other hand, might be a bit more interesting.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-25-2003, 01:47 AM
 
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I have never driven any Elise derivativwith a turbo of any description which has not had an unacceptable lag. FWIW I drive one of Audi's turbo engines in my road car and that has still got lag which in any other car would be fine but is just no use in the elise.
If i drive barefoot (hardly evr do mind!) and twith my big toe 3 times then I expect to be able to see the passenger nod in response. In the VX220 Turbo this just did not happen - in fact when I dabbed the throttle for a split second NOTHING happened while in my Elise my head would have hit the head rest.
The Elise is all about immediate and intense involvement in the driving process and that means the car has to respond instantly to any control inputs and with a turbo engine it is like sex with 3 condoms safe as hell but not very exciting!
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