Mishimoto Sandwich plate and sensors - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-17-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by InfernoLotus View Post
I am inclined not to get the Mish because it sounds like they both circulate some oil to the cooler all the time until they reach set temperature. The Mish has the advantage of changing to a higher set temp and that appears to be the only advantage. I would rather eliminate the cooler altogether since I am only using the car on the street. Most, if not all, other cars with 2ZZ engines have no oil cooler anyways. Is my logic flawed?
No

It does have a higher setpoint, but that is not the point

Please read my previous thread:

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f157...ooling-395394/

and note the difference in time to temperature, this is entirely the point.

You make the assumption that you do not need an oil cooler on the street, that is an assumption without data. Many EU cars run a oil/water intercooler and I do not know what Toyota cars run.

I do not see the point of ripping a bunch of stuff out of the car when you can make it work properly. If you want to try it and run some data, please do.

I am no originality weenie, but I do think long and hard about changing things that are hard to go back. I would suggest you do the same, it is less than 200 bucks, and less than an hours time to make the system work as it was designed, and I think cars with missing pieces will always be worth less than those with those pieces.

And no, I did not throw away my OEM sandwich plate.
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post #42 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-17-2018, 01:52 PM
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"all other cars" with 2zz have the engine up front pushing the engine into the cold air with nothing else in front of it. There is a whole thread on the oil temperatures observed before and after the mish plate, with data to backup the benefits.

Having said all that, if you're only on the street, it seems people have also disconnected the coolers with success, although I don't know if those people are in florida.

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post #43 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-17-2018, 07:35 PM
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I'm one of the few that decided to take out the entire system altogether. Stacking sandwich plates and having additional points of failure just doesn't appeal to me after having to replace the cam once. It takes an hour and a half to remove the front clam and another hour to remove the sandwich plate and pull the hoses and cooler and never have to worry about it again. If I ever decide to run a oil cooler, I can simply locate it to the side ducts. Less lines = lower pressure drop. Additionally, when I do an oil change, I get all of the old oil out. Those two coolers with the lines do hold 3 quarts and MORE. Ask me how I know. That's my 2 cents.
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post #44 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 08:22 AM
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On the street, with good synthetic oil, you will have no problems running without an oil cooler.
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post #45 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 09:27 AM
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I'm one of the few that decided to take out the entire system altogether. Stacking sandwich plates and having additional points of failure just doesn't appeal to me after having to replace the cam once. It takes an hour and a half to remove the front clam and another hour to remove the sandwich plate and pull the hoses and cooler and never have to worry about it again. If I ever decide to run a oil cooler, I can simply locate it to the side ducts. Less lines = lower pressure drop. Additionally, when I do an oil change, I get all of the old oil out. Those two coolers with the lines do hold 3 quarts and MORE. Ask me how I know. That's my 2 cents.
You don't stack sandwich plates

Replacing the sandwich plate [if you are not adding gauges etc] adds minutes to an oil change

I don't think we have anyone who has run gauges before and after cooler removal chime in on oil pressure changes
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post #46 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessal View Post
I'm one of the few that decided to take out the entire system altogether. Stacking sandwich plates and having additional points of failure just doesn't appeal to me after having to replace the cam once. It takes an hour and a half to remove the front clam and another hour to remove the sandwich plate and pull the hoses and cooler and never have to worry about it again. If I ever decide to run a oil cooler, I can simply locate it to the side ducts. Less lines = lower pressure drop. Additionally, when I do an oil change, I get all of the old oil out. Those two coolers with the lines do hold 3 quarts and MORE. Ask me how I know. That's my 2 cents.
You don't stack sandwich plates

Replacing the sandwich plate [if you are not adding gauges etc] adds minutes to an oil change

I don't think we have anyone who has run gauges before and after cooler removal chime in on oil pressure changes


I actually have in another thread regarding the oil temps and pressure. I'm seeing about 5psi or so across the board. No worries about leaking lines and being able to get all the oil out on a change is enough reason for me. The engine won't heat up faster than without any cooler. Also there is that weight thing. Someone mentioned 30lbs but I don't think it's that much to be honest. Maybe 20lbs savings. Either way is better than the OEM configuration.
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post #47 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 05:48 PM
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I see the point of removing the coolers but that will devaluate the vehicle in case you want to sell it in the future. Additionally, if you ever decide to track the car you will need to add coolers. I think the sandwich plate is the most logical and cost effective modification.
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post #48 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-18-2018, 11:38 PM
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are you running 2 stock coolers or have you modified your cooler setup?



also, mishi makes a 200* t-stat for future reference (I have one along with a plate ready to get installed once the f'in weather warms up here )


My rule of thumb is that i just double the time it took me to get the water up to temp before I dare to rev the engine to the second cam.
At least for 50 degrees F outside temp this seems correct according to your measurements.



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post #49 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 05:25 AM
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Over the last year, with the Mish plate, my oil temp breaks 165 as soon as the temp gauge hits 184, like clockwork. The only variation is when you start the car from semi warm and the coolant cools down faster than the oil. Outside temp makes no difference.
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post #50 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-22-2018, 07:57 PM
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I notice that the Sandwich plate that I received doesn't have the second port for a sensor on the side of the plate. They much make two versions.
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post #51 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 02:48 AM
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The ones I have seen have one port between the hose connections[useless] and one on the side

yours does not have the one on the side?
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post #52 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
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Additionally, if you ever decide to track the car you will need to add coolers.
This is an incorrect statement. Various LT threads have already addressed this matter based on actual experience. There are many high-hp cars as well as many track-focused cars that run a single oil cooler with no downside.

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post #53 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 05:55 AM
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The ones I have seen have one port between the hose connections[useless] and one on the side

yours does not have the one on the side?
That's right. Here's the ebay listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mishimoto-M...97.m4902.l9144
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post #54 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 06:02 AM
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This is an incorrect statement. Various LT threads have already addressed this matter based on actual experience. There are many high-hp cars as well as many track-focused cars that run a single oil cooler with no downside.
He was responding to removing them entirely
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post #55 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 07:28 AM
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when installing this stuff, is teflon tape to be used, or no? Maybe doesn't matter?

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post #56 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 07:56 AM
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No teflon tape on fittings

No teflon tape on electrical senders. Ok, you can put it on the senders if you leave teh end of the fitting bare, but don't tell anyone I told you....
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post #57 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
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He was responding to removing them entirely
Ah, thanks for the clarification...yes...concurred.

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post #58 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-23-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
He was responding to removing them entirely
Thanks for the clarifying Exigegus.
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post #59 of 127 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 06:34 AM
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Some folks don't seem to understand the function of a thermostat. A properly functioning, controlled system, like that demonstrated by the Mishimoto from what I can tell, maintains an oil temperature in addition to aiding with heating the oil at start up. With the engine as the heat source and the coolers as the heat sink the thermostat can keep oil temperatures consistent. It opens and allows flow through the coolers when the oil is above it's opening temperature and closes and allows the oil to heat up when below. This is exactly the same control system as the coolant circuit. The set point of that temperature being the range in which the thermostat opens (185F will be the fully open temp but it will start opening somewhere below that).

Removing the coolers altogether may indeed be OK in most situations, but it does limit the car's ability to control the oil temperature as there is no thermostat to maintain a set point. In other words, there will be more temperature swings in the oil and no control of the high end of oil temperature.
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post #60 of 127 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Just came off a 2 day track event at Watkins Glen. This is, in my view, the hardest I will push the car. To remind all, I have both coolers, Mishimoto sandwich plate, oil temp/pressure gauge. As previously stated, oil rises to temp quick enough now. Under hard conditions, temp stayed between 200-230 for each session (I did 8 in 2 days). I will replace the 185 degree thermostat for a 200 when I change the oil next week but for now, this project is crossed off the list and considered complete :-)

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