My Elise K20 Turbo and many others mods. - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 05:03 AM
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With almost 400whp I would imagine you'd be in the 10s pretty easily. My last car only had a little over 400whp and was 600lbs heavier and it cracked into the high 10s

Off topic, but how's the shifter feel after the K20 swap vs stock?
I worry about the shifter feeling even worse after the swap

Last edited by Ls1Rx7; 12-07-2017 at 05:09 AM.
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post #22 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 05:05 AM
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Nice build, even though my Exige has the factory SC, I prefer a well engineered turbo setup.

Regarding the non-linear throttle behavior, what are you using for boost control, electronic or manual, and where are you taking your boost reference? One thing you might consider: taking the pressure reference for boost control from the intake manifold can result in excess air pressure (above your boost target) before the throttle body when you are at partial throttle acceleration, and this will contribute to the non-linear throttle behavior. This isn't an issue if you're using a manual wastegate controller or no adjustable boost control, provided the feed for the pressure signal is near the turbo outlet.

-Ed
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post #23 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ls1Rx7 View Post
Off topic, but how's the shifter feel after the K20 swap vs stock?
I worry about the shifter feeling even worse after the swap
It is not off topic, it is the reason of the topic. The synchros system is very different into the Honda, and the ramp are smoother (the Honda synchro system is weird a little bit, very simple). The Innovative kit is very very very basic, too much in fact. The gear lever ratio is very bad as is. I make effort to improve the ratio and the stiffness. I changed the side play cable also, the feeling was not great at the beginning. The front/rear cable was already changed since many years. I create more reinforcement to the shifter box into the car, the box is maintained in place with rigid box rivetted to the chassis. I don't have pics, and it is very pragmatic.

The result as is is very cool, and better than Toyota as it was. But again, the Innovative kit is a good starting point, but not as good as it should be. The reason of this topic is to help everyone the chance to do the swap and meet the target first time. I flipped maybe 5 times the rear body to adjust the shifter ratio, by cutting and welding. The result as it was last year was great, and this winter I decided to improve the rotation of the linkage with ball bearing with the ratio found last summer. The feeling is better than stock, and better than my Focus RS.

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #24 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 05:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinP View Post
Nice build, even though my Exige has the factory SC, I prefer a well engineered turbo setup.

Regarding the non-linear throttle behavior, what are you using for boost control, electronic or manual, and where are you taking your boost reference? One thing you might consider: taking the pressure reference for boost control from the intake manifold can result in excess air pressure (above your boost target) before the throttle body when you are at partial throttle acceleration, and this will contribute to the non-linear throttle behavior. This isn't an issue if you're using a manual wastegate controller or no adjustable boost control, provided the feed for the pressure signal is near the turbo outlet.
Maybe you have a good point. The Hondata control the boost with a basic 3 way air valve. The pressure reference is into the intake. The set point is 14 psi into the Hondata, and the engine was running at 13.6 psi on dyno. It is easy to find good reference talking about the advantage and disadvantage of the three possibles place to pick-up the reference pressure. For the non linear, whatever where thr pressure is picked, at low throttle, the boost with be lower than what the controller is helping, maybe 6 psi. But at 6 psi with the TB at around 25% opening, it is big power with a very sensitive pedal. It is like controlling 300hp with 50% pedal travel. Again, it was not very bad, but not perfect and asking care.

All anti-lag parameter are off on the Hondata. The turbo lag is very small, and the transmission is a close ratio. The engine rpm drop is very minimal. At the beginning, std parameter for the anti-lag were programmed, working great on dyno, but not at all on street. I was all a time trigering the safetu boost limit. With anti-lag off, with the reference point into the intake, after quick shifting (3-4, 5-6, but not slower 2-3 or 4-5), the instant increase of boost may trigger the safety limit. I increased the safety limit to 18 psi if I remainber right.

But for sure, the turbo set-up gives big amount of torque in mid-range, like a V8 muscle car.

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #25 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 08:15 AM
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Whoa this is very good. Keep it coming! It's a great source of data for people considering doing a Honda swap.

As for putting your ABS back, did you need Elise S3 bearings because the S3 ABS is different from S2 ABS? I thought S2 and S3 bearings are the same part...
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post #26 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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As for putting your ABS back, did you need Elise S3 bearings because the S3 ABS is different from S2 ABS? I thought S2 and S3 bearings are the same part...
The ABS of the S3 is a Bosch unit using active sensor, and the ABS in the S2 is using passive sensor. The S3 sensor are into the DF11S family. The ABS unit purchased for my car is a Bosch (not received yet...), but not from the S3, but a racing setted unit, adjustable. The S3 sensor was approved from Bosch Germany. I am in verification with Hondata for the wiring diagram between the ABS and the TC.

The bearing unit, dimension wise, are exactly the same and fit well as I did. I received today the electrical connector to suit with the wheel sensor, from Opel Astra 2008 P/N 13117565. They fit!

At the moment, I have many delay for parts delivery, ABS, Hethelsport flare kit, and custom axles (supposed to be finished end of next week... again).

As soon as the electrical connection is set, I will post the electrical diagram of my car. I will update also the spec sheet.

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #27 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 03:14 PM
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Thanks. According to the Lotus press release, it looks like the rest of the world S3, with the 1ZR and 2ZR, got the updated Bosch ABS. US S3s, with the 2ZZ, seemed to have continued with the Kelsey-Hayes unit. What a bummer.

2011 Lotus Elise SC Final Edition 15 of 15 - Ardent Red
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post #28 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Since I am shopping that kind of parts in UK, I did not realise that the S3 is different in US and other country.

OK, here the latest version of my wiring diagram. Not fully clear, I wish it have no error either, but I am not 100% certain than the wiring is a complete as build. Since my car is a 2006, the fuel level was not working on the Hondata. Lastest elise model may use the Hondata option. For mine, I am using a fuel sensor with a pod gauge, using a custom made flange on the tank. My car do not have fuel into the tank, but one low pressure out of the tank to fill a surge tank, and a high pressure to feed the fuel rail. The fuel rail is a return type to a pressure relief, returning the fuel to the surge tank.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf JR-005-45-1000 REV 0 P1.pdf (215.5 KB, 93 views)
File Type: pdf JR-005-45-1000 REV 0 P2.pdf (175.1 KB, 84 views)

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #29 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-08-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ls1Rx7 View Post
With almost 400whp I would imagine you'd be in the 10s pretty easily.
400whp != fast ET.

Better estimation... it'll be likely 120ish trapspeed. How well he can hook up and get down the quarter mile is a different story.



OP, I don't see anything mentioned about the gearbox... something to consider when you start putting more than 400hp/350tq thru it -- you'll want to reinforce those gears:





Or, go crazy and just do it right from the get-go:




"Straights are for fast cars. Turns are for fast drivers."
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post #30 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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The car have close ration Gear-X set-up. But not as tought as drag kit, and not sequential for street and money reasons.

I received my custom axles. Not as hard that Insane (Insane were at incredible hardness of 67Rc) with 57Rc, but still, this gives like a tensile of 290ksi. And they will be quite ductile. I will adjust to boost to lower it in forst gear (anyway, the car spin a lot), and a little bit at mid range on second. No pictures installed, but fit well! Around 5/8 gap at left (based on collapsed lenght), and 3/4 on right.

The ABS should leave UK monday. I still wait for the flare kit.

I did not mention that, but I tack welded the turbo to the header flange, installed without gasket. The bolts have tendency to become loose, and not very accessible.

I will try to make the diflow diffuser I have in Carbone fiber by molding directly on it. I purchased the fiber yesterday.

Keep moving.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Muffler in place, repainted, with his new billet exhaust flange to suit a easy to buy exhaust donut. This type of flange for flexibility in torsion. The muffler is a flowmaster, the pipe is under the diffuser to help to pass the noise control on restricted sound track track. The exhaust line is in 3 inches dia.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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I am working on french book, and I spend time to draw the theorical acceleration based on the my torque curve and my transmission, and comparated it to a std transmission, and also to a supercharged K20 (stock internal) like a friend have. The acceleration is taking care of the drag, based on 17.5 hp required at 62 mi/h. The painted area shows advantage for each set-up. Of course, it is impossible to acceleration that fast on first gear... each set-up spin.

Title translation:

accélération (G) versus rapport de vitesse, effet de la transmission = acceleration rate (G scale) based on the speed, related to the transmission option.

accélération (G) versus rapport de vitesse, effet de la courbe de puissance = acceleration rate (G scale) based on the speed, related to the power band curve type.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-06-2018, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
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I received few personnal messages asking for more details. Here the pics of the trunk modification (and heat protection wall in SS). Since my car is still used on street, for me, it was important to have a trunk.

And a pics of my spare block, just pick it yesterday at the machine shop.

Also another pics showing whay I am working slowly on the car during winter time! lol

The complete spec sheet of the car will be revised soon.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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ABS received... found the place to install it... it compact, the ABS with the hardness do not fit on the original place.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Latest update. The ABS M5 is installed and no code, the S3 elise Europe bearing works!

The Hondata traction control is installed also using the output of the ABS unit as wheels trigger. Cool!

You can see where I put the ABS unit (quite tight) and all control ABS and TC.

I still waiting for the Hethelsport flare kit, and the kit is in US now.

The enlarged wheels were supposed to be Team Dynamics 17x9 for the rear, but it was big confusion with distribution. Blackwatchracing was not able to have clear answer for the delivery.* I switched to the Sector111 Athos wheels. Those wheels will be used for the track, and smaller Team Dynamics (17x8, having them many years) for the street.
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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 02:45 PM
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Looks awesome, how did you share the output of the sensors?

Thanks
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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Looks awesome, how did you share the output of the sensors?

Thanks
Simple and not so simple! The ABS M5 (not the M4, but it is possible with an extra module) has specific output to deal with the ECU (but the Hondata do not have this feature, but the OEM ABS module from the Lotus has it). The outputs are open-collector type. Since I don't exactly what it means... I asked to a friend to help me to do the schematic for that connection, which is weird but simple. See the attached electrical schematics. The TC have the option for the sensor type. I open the box and switched it for this type of set-up.

What is weird about the ABS is I need to close the TC to communicate with the ABS for servicing. This is why I added a switch to close the TC. The switch will be all a time on except when I need to read into the ABS.

Now, the possible issue is the quantity of count from the wheel bearing. It seams quite low, maybe with 24 counts per turn, but not sure at the moment, I need to confirm that. The ABS module do not have count down indicator, but the TC have it. Anyway, it is not critical but not ideal. The track experience will confirm if it is perfect or with not perfect.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf JR-005-45-1000 REV 1 P1.pdf (215.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: pdf JR-005-45-1000 REV 1 P2.pdf (174.9 KB, 43 views)

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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HETHELSPORT

I don't know really them, but now I am very upset. I purchased a rear fender kit for my Lotus Elise via GRP since october 23 2017, and four months after, I still not have the parts, and I don't have a clear answer where the parts are. I just ask to cancel the order now. It is just a pain situation. My first and last contact with Hethelsport!

As soon as I have the order cancellation confirmation, I will order a reverie rear fender kit. Not cool, the season is starting soon.

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Elise 2006, white, K20 turbo GT3076R, 395 whp
List of mod: I am just stupid putting that much money on that car!
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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 05:34 AM
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HETHELSPORT

I don't know really them, but now I am very upset. I purchased a rear fender kit for my Lotus Elise via GRP since october 23 2017, and four months after, I still not have the parts, and I don't have a clear answer where the parts are. I just ask to cancel the order now. It is just a pain situation. My first and last contact with Hethelsport!

As soon as I have the order cancellation confirmation, I will order a reverie rear fender kit. Not cool, the season is starting soon.
If you paid GRP, shouldn't you take that up with him? It is a handmade part in Asia, so I wouldn't expect it to be quick unless you were told otherwise

"Lots Of Trouble; Usually Serious"
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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 06:36 AM
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Have you looked into the outer plus flares? They also seem like a good option
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