No Reason To Not Have A P.O. From Dealer! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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No Reason To Not Have A P.O. From Dealer!

That is, unless there is something in it that he'd rather you not see. Valenti has been selling Lotus in the U.S. longer than anyone and they supply their customers with 'signed' purchase orders so that the customer knows what the dealer can and can't do.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:41 PM
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About your signed purchase order: What does it actually define? Does is mention the refundability of the deposits? Does it define the sale price of the car (MSRP or otherwise), price of options, and prices of all fees?

In a nutshell, I want the dealer to committ to a final price before *I* committ to a non-refundable deposit.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:47 PM
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Since all I have is my initial deposit form which states my spot in line, MSRP and refundable deposit, I would have to assume my dealer is not giving me a PO in order to insulate them from potential MSRP increases. I would prefer to lock in to current MSRP at the expense of my deposit being refundable.

ed- but I would also like to know the specifics of your PO Ridge if you don't mind.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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To me, the most important part of the P.O. concerns my Res #, which was 13 and is now 12 due to a drop-out. The agreed to price, not including sales tax or registration fees is also included. Delivery acceptance info, buyer's refusal to purchase info, and a host of items that concern things that are beyond the control of the dealer are also included.
I hope you at least have something that
refers to your Res. #, for without it strange things have been known to occur at car dealerships in general. And, it should bear someone's signature.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 06:51 AM
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Ridge, I thought that the MSRP from Lotus has not yet been finalized? The dealer brochures posted here clearly stated that the listed price was not finalized. Just curious if maybe this has changed since the original brochures came out in January.

The other thing is, even if you had a certain Res # in writing, it would seem like it might be hard to know if you actually got your car right after the person in front of you inline. What I mean is, it may be hard to know if the dealer had ordered cars for themselves in between some of the pre ordered cars. Or maybe you are more concerned with others who are supposedly in line behind you getting their car first because maybe they agreed to pay more or something, which will probably happen at some dealers. Either way it may be hard to know if your actual place in line gets shifted unless you went to the dealer every day and talked to every (or even most) of the people that were taking delivery of the car. I guess even though I have my place in writing I don't feel real confident that I will actually be number 17 at my dealer lol. My dealer is 5 hours away so there is not much I could to check up on things when cars start arriving.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 08:06 AM
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Zo6,
That to be confirmed relates to the launch at the LA show, at the press conference pricing WAS confirmed.

Chris
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 09:38 AM
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Do you mean a PO when placed a deposit or PO for ordering the car? I did get a receipt/PO when I placed my deposit a year ago but no PO or anything after I placed my order 2 weeks ago.

Anyone got any kind of receipt or PO after they placed their order?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stuttgart
Do you mean a PO when placed a deposit or PO for ordering the car? I did get a receipt/PO when I placed my deposit a year ago but no PO or anything after I placed my order 2 weeks ago.

Anyone got any kind of receipt or PO after they placed their order?
Yes, it seems a few ppl have gotten PO's after their specific order was placed.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by z06fun
The other thing is, even if you had a certain Res # in writing, it would seem like it might be hard to know if you actually got your car right after the person in front of you inline. What I mean is, it may be hard to know if the dealer had ordered cars for themselves in between some of the pre ordered cars. Or maybe you are more concerned with others who are supposedly in line behind you getting their car first because maybe they agreed to pay more or something, which will probably happen at some dealers. Either way it may be hard to know if your actual place in line gets shifted unless you went to the dealer every day and talked to every (or even most) of the people that were taking delivery of the car. I guess even though I have my place in writing I don't feel real confident that I will actually be number 17 at my dealer lol. My dealer is 5 hours away so there is not much I could to check up on things when cars start arriving.
Actually, the # on your deposit receipt just means (at most) that your deposit was the nth one received. Unless you have a pretty good contract around that number that states all the assumptions everyone is making about what that number means, it doesn't mean anything. Granted some dealers will deliver on those assumptions, but many will not and, when they don't, there is little recourse.

Furthermore, does anyone know if your position in the deposit line is retained through the ordering process? When the dealer places the order for your car in the batch of 20 orders, does the ordering system schedule them in the order entered? Did the dealer enter the orders in the same order as the deposits or were they entered as people responded? Given all the above is answered in the most favorable way, will Lotus build them in that order, or schedule the builds based on some logistical criteria?

I don't have a clue as to the answers to any of those questions, but they could significantly alter the expected delivery sequence and dates.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:08 AM
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Chris- according to my dealer the answer is yes. Being first in line for the second batch, will find out how that works in the real world. I'm sure dealers could use the process to shuffle cars/people around a bit.

Where things are likely to get moved around is in the timing- will Lotus ship cars out every two weeks or once a month. Also the time to get to there final destinationn.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:19 AM
 
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When I placed my "order" (color, packages, etc) over the phone, the dealer faxed me a one page document (i don't have it here at work) that looked just like other documents I have received when I purchased cars in the past. It had the dealer's name at the top of the page. It had my name, address, type of car, model, year, color, a space for a VIN number, it listed my car and options with prices and then it had the tax, title and license amounts listed and a final purchase price (note: next to the base price it said "M.S.R.P."). At the dealer's request, i initialed it and faxed it back. No additional money required. I was told my deposit remained refundable. I don't know if this is what you all (or y'all here in Texas) are calling a purchase order, but I am a lawyer and it satisfied me.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by bsmesq
When I placed my "order" (color, packages, etc) over the phone, the dealer faxed me a one page document (i don't have it here at work) that looked just like other documents I have received when I purchased cars in the past. It had the dealer's name at the top of the page. It had my name, address, type of car, model, year, color, a space for a VIN number, it listed my car and options with prices and then it had the tax, title and license amounts listed and a final purchase price (note: next to the base price it said "M.S.R.P."). At the dealer's request, i initialed it and faxed it back. No additional money required. I was told my deposit remained refundable. I don't know if this is what you all (or y'all here in Texas) are calling a purchase order, but I am a lawyer and it satisfied me.
Did your P.O. make note of your reservation #?
I would assume that if a dealer had given you a number, which appears on the P.O., and then attempted to say it wasn't a reservation 'in line' number he would have some explaining to do as to what that number signified, if not a reservation number.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by z06fun
Ridge, I thought that the MSRP from Lotus has not yet been finalized? The dealer brochures posted here clearly stated that the listed price was not finalized. Just curious if maybe this has changed since the original brochures came out in January.

The other thing is, even if you had a certain Res # in writing, it would seem like it might be hard to know if you actually got your car right after the person in front of you inline. What I mean is, it may be hard to know if the dealer had ordered cars for themselves in between some of the pre ordered cars. Or maybe you are more concerned with others who are supposedly in line behind you getting their car first because maybe they agreed to pay more or something, which will probably happen at some dealers. Either way it may be hard to know if your actual place in line gets shifted unless you went to the dealer every day and talked to every (or even most) of the people that were taking delivery of the car. I guess even though I have my place in writing I don't feel real confident that I will actually be number 17 at my dealer lol. My dealer is 5 hours away so there is not much I could to check up on things when cars start arriving.
If you had a signed P.O. stating #6 for example, and then found out that numbers 7 and higher were already reported to have been received by customers, a lawyer could tell you if
there was recourse available to you. This is where an examination of the agreed to purchase order could be done by him, also noting if all things stated by the dealer in the P.O. are
allowable by law. State law may vary and that is why a P.O. is important to have. Otherwise, how could a lawyer tell you if the dealer is in violation some way?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:52 AM
 
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Ridge: No reservation number. Instead the form had a "date and time of deposit." Dealer told me that it was using date and time of deposit system so that if people dropped off list, it could re-generate its list based on date and time of deposits. I have gone from upper teens to 12 (at last check about 1 month ago). Dealer is moving people up list as people drop off. At time of order, dealer told me they expected people would drop off because the deposit was refundable and only $1K.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
 
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I believe 'date and time' could serve as well as 'reservation number' and your dealer sounds like one on the up and up.
The P.O. can, at best, lessen the amount of wiggle-room a dealer might want to enact but by having one to read, we the customer would be able to note possiblilities not in our best interest, before the fact and not after. Surprises from dealers are not usually fun things for customers.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 03:29 PM
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My dealer sent me a letter stating my number in line, and they even had a list posted on the wall of one of their offices showing everyones place in line, but I dont know if people are supposed to see it or not. Hey Transio, why are you now number 104 on the list- Just kidding!

I thought the first 10 cars were all coming together, but my dealer said they are working on their allocation and will get back to me to see how many cars they are getting in each shipment and will know for sure in a week or two. They always check to make sure they have the correct info instead of just making something up to keep you happy, so I appreciate their honesty.

I asked if there was a possibility that a persons place on line wouldn't be the same as their number of delivery since if green cars were made first and shipped those with orders for those cars would get them first. My dealer said that they will be delivered in the order that the deposits were placed. This way person #20 doesnt get their car before person #4.

In any case, dealers are surprised when you mention another customer by name and their place in line. I guess they dont realize that we all use the internet and send each other PMs. They probably think I am physic since I went in I already knew what other people had ordered and their place in line, where they live and what they do for a living, etc.

I'm number 7 so now I just have to hope that they get at least that many cars in their first shipment. Its no big deal, another month or two wont be that bad. Besides the dealer will let everyone take out their demo anyway- Just hope that I remember to bring it back. My excuse will be that I wanted to put 600 miles on it so that it would be broken in for the next person.
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