Oil with ZDDP for Elise? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Oil with ZDDP for Elise?

I use a high ZDDP oil in my old 911 that has flat tappets...all old flat tappet lumps require a higher level than the cat friendly oils generally marketed/ produced today.

No need to discuss what ZDDP is.

I was surprised to see some here talking about using a heavier ZDDP concentration oil in their Elise....why?

I've looked at the cam/valve train set up and it is unique but it is not your typical FT.

There is no real reason to use a ZDDP heavy oil without the 'slap' a flat tappet gets (as far as I know and I am not an expert by any means).
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 08:31 PM
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Premature cam wear is a known issue on Elises/Exiges, so thatís why people run high ZDDP oils
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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 10:10 PM
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It is not correct to talk about just ZDDP as the only wear "protectant" additive in an oil, or even the most important. In the oil industry, just zinc in not measured, a class/group of minerals are measured and reported under the heading of ZDDP. It is a combination of additives (that also include ZDDP) that gives the ware protective properties of an oil. Let's leave it at that.

The Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40 has just about the best wear protection properties of any commercially available oil...and it just so happens to have a lot of ZDDP just to give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside. And as an added bonus, you can but it at Wal-Mart!

BUT it MUST say "FS" on the bottle...that stands for Fully Synthetic. All of the previous Mobil 1 oils are just semi-synthetic, even though they advertised then as "synthetic".

That is the best oil to use for the Lotus.period.

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Reiver View Post
I use a high ZDDP oil in my old 911 that has flat tappets...all old flat tappet lumps require a higher level than the cat friendly oils generally marketed/ produced today.

No need to discuss what ZDDP is.

I was surprised to see some here talking about using a heavier ZDDP concentration oil in their Elise....why?

I've looked at the cam/valve train set up and it is unique but it is not your typical FT.

There is no real reason to use a ZDDP heavy oil without the 'slap' a flat tappet gets (as far as I know and I am not an expert by any means).
Look up "Cam wiping" if you want to dive into the rabbit hole. Thanks, Toyota...

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 05:45 AM
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Go with Red Line. Best oil we can buy for our cars that's non-race oil.
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 05:59 AM
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I will add my choice, Joe Gibbs Driven 5w-40 is the best oil you can pour into your Lotus Toyota engine.
See where this is going???

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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by machine.gun.kelly View Post
It is not correct to talk about just ZDDP as the only wear "protectant" additive in an oil, or even the most important. In the oil industry, just zinc in not measured, a class/group of minerals are measured and reported under the heading of ZDDP. It is a combination of additives (that also include ZDDP) that gives the ware protective properties of an oil. Let's leave it at that.

The Mobil 1ô FS 0W-40 has just about the best wear protection properties of any commercially available oil...and it just so happens to have a lot of ZDDP just to give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside. And as an added bonus, you can but it at Wal-Mart!

BUT it MUST say "FS" on the bottle...that stands for Fully Synthetic. All of the previous Mobil 1 oils are just semi-synthetic, even though they advertised then as "synthetic".

That is the best oil to use for the Lotus.period.
Is this the very oil you are referring to MGK?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0...6902#read-more
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 07:07 AM
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Yes, the one and only absolute best oil for your Lotus is one of the oils mentioned above, or not. Period.
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Last edited by me73; 12-14-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 3carmonte View Post
Is this the very oil you are referring to MGK?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0...6902#read-more
No, well maybe. The picture of the product you linked is not correct. See the "FS" in this picture? That is what you are looking for. Walmart may send the correct one, maybe not, best to buy in person.
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 07:58 AM
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Look up "Cam wiping" if you want to dive into the rabbit hole. Thanks, Toyota...
Not sure this is a fair statement, in that the problem occurs in Lotus cars, but not very much at all (i.e. rarely) in Toyotas.

I've always used the Mobil 1 10W-40 Diesel/truck oil. Has this fallen out of favor??

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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 08:05 AM
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Every time I start to reconsider my choice of oil...and begin searching the forums. It goes down the same path and I end up more confused than I was to begin with.

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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 08:32 AM
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Just to stir the pot a little, MGK what do you think of the Motul 8100? I thought it specked out a little better than Mobil 1 products. Rustyb
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 08:49 AM
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For the amount of time people spend arguing about "which oil is best" you'd think more people would take the time to post up Blackstone reports to support their oil of choice.

I would say the two most important factors when choosing an oil are using the right weight for the application and using a TRUE (group IV, V) full synthetic.
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3carmonte View Post
Is this the very oil you are referring to MGK?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0...6902#read-more
That is the one!

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rustyb View Post
Just to stir the pot a little, MGK what do you think of the Motul 8100? I thought it specked out a little better than Mobil 1 products. Rustyb
Isn't that only a 5W-30 oil? There are a lot of oils with significantly better ware protection, not even considering the viscosity. The Fully Synthetic Mobil 1 has the best of any oil you can buy and pour. You can get some race oils that have slightly better, but not worth the $$$ for the little extra protection you could get. And there is the option of blending your own oils...but not for me!

Whoever said that island life is great was never committed to Alcatraz...
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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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I did not mean to start a 'which oil is best' killer thread.....just the ZDDP issue.
ZDDP will do nothing for the Toyota cam issue...nada...you'll just fowl your cat over time. The valve train in our 1.8 does not need ZDDP as the kind of issue ZDDP fixes does not exist in our non flat tappet cars.

Met the mechanic at Brighton MS in Phx today for a visit and we discussed this...Simon, he's been doing Lotus for decades. In his opinion the cam wiping is due to the oil squirter tube being misaligned so that the small oil holes do not deliver the oil in the correct spot....critical at high RPM. He said he's seen this numerous times and has had to fix that.

I asked specifically about ZDDP high oils in the 1.8 and he said that makes no sense at all....all you will do is ruin your cat.
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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiver View Post
I did not mean to start a 'which oil is best' killer thread.....just the ZDDP issue.
ZDDP will do nothing for the Toyota cam issue...nada...you'll just fowl your cat over time. The valve train in our 1.8 does not need ZDDP as the kind of issue ZDDP fixes does not exist in our non flat tappet cars.

Met the mechanic at Brighton MS in Phx today for a visit and we discussed this...Simon, he's been doing Lotus for decades. In his opinion the cam wiping is due to the oil squirter tube being misaligned so that the small oil holes do not deliver the oil in the correct spot....critical at high RPM. He said he's seen this numerous times and has had to fix that.

I asked specifically about ZDDP high oils in the 1.8 and he said that makes no sense at all....all you will do is ruin your cat.
The fixation on flat tappets is myopic, there are other applications where ZDDP is believed to be beneficial, e.g., modified motors and race applications. Not saying non-ZDDP light oils aren't capable of providing the anti-wear characteristics necessary, but again, oil selection should be determined by the application - there is no panacea.

RE clogging cats, phosphorous level regulation via lower ZDDP is to ensure cats last 100k miles. Slightly higher levels of ZDDP in oils like the Mobil 1 referenced above probably won't diminish that interval by too much.
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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 10:06 AM
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Thumbs up Since we're playing "here we go again"...LOL!

I have some of this left from a 40 quart box I bought from Best Line Oil distributors here in Tampa when I first bought the car.
I thought it was the best fully synthetic oil I could get at the time (2014). It has since been replaced with "Platinum Ultra" which may not be as good as Mobil One. It was the hunt for Shell - Helix (recommended for our cars by Lotus)) that led me to speaking with Mobil customer support which told me not to use the turbo diesel oil but rather Mobil - 1 for our cars. I had already decided on the "Ultra-Euro" at the time but when I run out of that...
P.S. I use Total Quartz 9000 full syn. 5w40 in my VW-GTI Turbo with no issues. It fits the VW 507.00 oil standard and is cheaper than the German Liquid Moly. VW dealerships use Mobil-1 5w40 for their oil changes. (I can't find that at Walmart stores).

This is a good LT thread on this entire subject! https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f259...il-1-a-190161/
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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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@TedR You are saying the words "full synthetic" on the label are not sufficient, it must have the FS logo? I have not heard this before, can you cite a source? Not doubting, just want to learn more about the ways I'm being screwed out of a dollar...

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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Patiotray View Post
@TedR You are saying the words "full synthetic" on the label are not sufficient, it must have the FS logo? I have not heard this before, can you cite a source? Not doubting, just want to learn more about the ways I'm being screwed out of a dollar...
The base stock of the oil matters; lots of "full synthetic" oils out there are dino-based rather than PAO or ester.
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