Rod/piston removal through the bottom? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Rod/piston removal through the bottom?

Has anyone actually managed this procedure?
I'm thinking of changing the bearings and possibly rods after each track season by removing the oil pan etc and without having to remove the engine.
I tried "gently" pulling the stock hardware having removed the motor but it seemed like the piston heads were getting stuck. I know that the squirters need to be removed...

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
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Has anyone actually managed this procedure?
I'm thinking of changing the bearings and possibly rods after each track season by removing the oil pan etc and without having to remove the engine.
I tried "gently" pulling the stock hardware having removed the motor but it seemed like the piston heads were getting stuck. I know that the squirters need to be removed...

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Not possible. I have removed the pistons and rods without removing the engine but they have to be taken out the top after removing the cylinder head.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 05:14 AM
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Wow, interesting concept but I don't see how it would work. You would need to remove the crankshaft to get the pistons out and then I don't see how you would use ring compressors from the bottom to get pistons back in. That is assuming you can get pistons/rings past any ridge formed at the bottom of the cylinder wall. Nah, not gonna work... Open for criticism on my assessment but I'd say no....
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Dang it . ok . Thanks guys.
Well for the "next" time , at least the engine will remain in situ ( so long as the shortblock is intact. Current one isn't so happy. )
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 02:37 PM
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Dang it . ok . Thanks guys.
Well for the "next" time , at least the engine will remain in situ ( so long as the shortblock is intact. Current one isn't so happy. )
Sorry to hear... Make a repair thread and post pictures. It is always good to see how others attempt these jobs!

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a couple of tips/cheats :

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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I used two Allen keys sticking through the water pump pulley. The tips jam up against a couple of obstacles , then I can wrench the 4 bolts which allow easy access to the rest of the bolts underneath

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Here's how I remove the crank pulley ( below ) .
I use old old flywheel bolts then place a pry bar between them , then use a breaker bar at the opposite end to wrench off the crank pulley bolt . Pushing obviously in opposite directions .

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Oh and here's a spot the odd one out picture

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 04:14 PM
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Oh and here's a spot the odd one out picture

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Ouch! Yea, time for the engine to come out....

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Yup, it's out . Seeing what's salvageable. Rebuild underway.
Im thinking stroker on E85 with 465whp and 400+ torque is not doable with the MWR bearings. Probably too much torque. The rods were heavy duty Pauter. Bearing shredded, rod bolt gave out.
Back to the drawing board ...

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 08:51 PM
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Humm, not enough oil flow or interrupted oil flow maybe? What oil supply upgrades had you done? Just curious, I'm not racing but always like to delve into failure reports....

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
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Yup, it's out . Seeing what's salvageable. Rebuild underway.
Im thinking stroker on E85 with 465whp and 400+ torque is not doable with the MWR bearings. Probably too much torque. The rods were heavy duty Pauter. Bearing shredded, rod bolt gave out.
Back to the drawing board ...

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Sorry to see the carnage. Any thoughts about a better bearing, or was it just unrealistic HP/TQ in your opinion?

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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I am switching to ACL bearings. However, I'm also not going to aim so high. It sucks not being at the track even though at that power level the car was absolutely incredible. I was able to catch all the super cars and hadn't even switched to my slicks. GB is e153 with Kaaz close ratio gears and LSD which helped me pull out of corners and push throughout the rpm too.

But I reckon torque kills the bearings ... I do recall reading about a supercharged + turbocharged Elise down in Vegas. It too had high torque of course , and the chap eventually gave in since the 4 banger was chewing up bearings too fast. I think this would be less of an issue on a 6 cylinder as the load is distributed or at least supported with less effort with by the next journal on the crank shaft.

I could be talking bollocks though ... I'm not an engineer .

I'm unlikely to go with another stroker set up . The cost is too high to replace went ****e happens. It was fun though... My 2 bits.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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It terms of oil flow ... Just billet oil pump gears , gpan3 . I guess at some point I'll get dry sump system.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:44 PM
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Thanks for the additional information. Please keep us apprised of your plans/implementation.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 05:40 AM
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Gotta drop RPM with the stroker. Additionally, I believe the rod bearings are smaller as the journals are smaller on the stroker crank. One pro-tip, courtesy of James Clayton. Drill a hole in the valve cover right over the bolt that holds the chain guide on the intake side of the head. That is the only bolt inside the valve cover that ties the head to the block. Plug with 3/8" brass threaded plug. When you want to take the head off you no longer have to take off the timing cover which is a huge PITA. Take that plug out, remove the bolt, and a couple of easy to access bolts on the timing cover into the head and you can pull it right off in-situ.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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That's a great tip . Thank you Sir . I was thinking of cutting the timing cover ( like I had when playing with MR2 3SGTE years back - plastic cover though).


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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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The rpm was limited to 8500 .
It was the MWR stroker kit with which I used stock sized MWR bearings throughout. I had only just started to hammer on the motor when it went popped and bled out on the track. I know it could possibly the multiple things including a freak metal issue somewhere or even the ARP rod bolt not torqued properly ( you can never say never ).
I have discovered that the two exhaust valves are no longer centered/seated flat- by about 1mm off center. Slight damaged to the top of the piston...

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
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The rpm was limited to 8500 .
It was the MWR stroker kit with which I used stock sized MWR bearings throughout. I had only just started to hammer on the motor when it went popped and bled out on the track. I know it could possibly the multiple things including a freak metal issue somewhere or even the ARP rod bolt not torqued properly ( you can never say never ).
I have discovered that the two exhaust valves are no longer centered/seated flat- by about 1mm off center. Slight damaged to the top of the piston...

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I don't know enough about it to say what RPM would be good. I was thinking rod journals were smaller diameter vs 2zz, but can't recall.


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