Saw a silver S2 111s at Boardwalk Lotus - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Saw a silver S2 111s at Boardwalk Lotus

LarryB and I checked out the silver S2 at Boardwalk Lotus today. What a beautiful car! It looks great in pictures, but even better in real life. We weren't able to take it for a drive as the car hadn't been inspected by their mechanic yet (fresh off the truck) and there are liability issues, but were able to poke around and learn a little. It was an S2, so seeing the car didn't yield any new insight, but talking to the guy there did help answer some questions about the US-spec model.

- The trunk is quite large, really. However, the taillights aren't protected against shifting objects.

- The US car will have a front bumper. The top forward lip of the current nose will come forward a bit, and possibly up, to provide the 2.5mph impact requirement. no word about how the rear would be dealt with.

- Price will be about $39k (though Boardwalk is adding a markup to that).

- Power windows and locks will be optional.

- The front headlights MAY be different for the US. This is a design detail that has not yet been resolved within Lotus. I for one hope they don't touch them!

- The dashboard will not be alcantara-covered, though the car may be able to be ordered that way nonetheless (if your dealer has a good relationship with Lotus, which the Boardwalk dealer claimed to). Likewise, no alcantara for the seats.

- Engine - still keeping quiet about this, but yet another assurance that we will absolutely love it, and that it's very reliable. I have a hard time seeing how so many insiders could describe the Celica GTS' powerplant as one we'd absolutely love, when it's so peaky.

- Wheels will be the same as on the 111s (see pictures).

- Dashboard will be entirely different.

- Hardtop will be $1.5k

Of course, some of this information may be just rumors, you never know. The source sounded credible though.

The car will be shown at the Palo Alto Concours on Sunday, and should remain at Boardwalk Lotus through next weekend.

Click here to see some pictures.

'05 Elise, Magnetic Blue / Biscuit / Hardtop
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 08:23 PM
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 08:24 PM
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I love that color. Great looking pics Matt. Thanks for the write up.

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 10:17 PM
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Wow, that is a nice color. Is that the "quartz"?

2005 S2000 #42as
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 11:06 PM
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I believe it is. Until I saw a pic of it, it was not even on my color radar. Now it's high on my list of colors.

ON second thought... the next pic is the Quartz. Maybe a reflection of the backgrounds and ambient colors?

#somethingwickedthiswaycomes... the new Origin Noble M and the Origin 7

Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-20-2003, 11:08 PM
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 12:09 AM
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Re: Saw a silver S2 111s at Boardwalk Lotus

Quote:
Originally posted by MattG
I have a hard time seeing how so many insiders could describe the Celica GTS' powerplant as one we'd absolutely love, when it's so peaky.
This is a point I keep making to myself, but others don't seem to agree. They keep pointing out the weight of the vehicle but:

180 hp @ 7,600 rpm
130 lb.-ft. @ 6,800 rpm

...is pretty nasty stuff. Maybe I'm used to Mercedes AMG engines, or maybe I'm right.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 08:45 AM
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Re: Re: Saw a silver S2 111s at Boardwalk Lotus

Lotus Elise:

180 hp @ 7,600 rpm
130 lb.-ft. @ 6,800 rpm
1950 lbs.

Lbs. / hp = 10.8 / 1


Honda S2000:

240 hp @ 8,500 rpm
153 lb.-ft. @ 7,500 rpm
2790 lbs.

Lbs. / hp = 11.6 / 1


Porsche Boxster S:

250 hp @ 6,250 rpm
225 lb.-ft. @ 4,500 rpm
3020 lbs.

Lbs. / hp = 12 / 1
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 09:01 AM
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Re: Re: Saw a silver S2 111s at Boardwalk Lotus

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180 hp @ 7,600 rpm
130 lb.-ft. @ 6,800 rpm
I don't see anything wrong with those specs. It makes power at high speed -- just like my Miata, just like my old Integra, just like the S2000, just like a motorcycle or an F1 engine. The real problem with the engine is that there is a big jump in torque at the cam change-over. Several reviewers have found its powerband to be very un-smooth. If only they could lower the changeover point and smooth out that step...

Randy, it looks to me like the same color with different lighting/difference cameras.

2005 S2000 #42as

Last edited by John Stimson; 06-21-2003 at 09:10 AM.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 09:10 AM
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It's not the number so much as the curve. If it was a steady power curve up to peak, we would all be satisfied, but it's far from it. Notice that this '02 Celica GTS with cold air intake only hits 120 hp by 6000 rpm, so for a VAST majority of driving, you're going to have a 120 hp car. It's only after you hit the change over point at ~6300 rpm that any real power comes on, but remeber, redline on this engine is 7800 rpm - so you get that power for all of 1500 rpm.



I have faith that Lotus will do something to this engine to make it more exciting, so I'll hold the majority of my comments until we see how the federal Elise actually performs. My point is that you can't base overall performance off of peak numbers.
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 09:18 AM
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Torque is what directly makes the car go, and power is proportionally related to the torque times the RPM. So "it makes less power at low speed" is a misleading statement...it would be true of an engine with a completely constant torque curve.

If the torque is constant at all speeds, then the car will have the same acceleration at any speed in a given gear.

Just look at the torque curve instead of the power curve; the complaint is still valid.

2005 S2000 #42as
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 12:11 PM
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The only small correction I might add to Robert's post is that Porsche has added a meager 10hp to the Boxster S, bringing the total to 260. I'm looking for a special car, and therefore if the Elise turns out horribly (which it won't), I'd rather spend a little more for the Boxster S and enjoy the experience.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 12:37 PM
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I should have noted that the S2000 & Boxster S numbers were from the September 2000 issue of Road & Track.

I was poking around a bit on-line, and found a picture of the 2.4 liter VVTi motor in the Camry. It's the exact same photo AutoExpress used in their article on the Elise...

While the peak numbers for the 2AZ-FE are a bit lower than we;ve been hearing, that motor is supposed to have a nice fat torque curve. It makes you wonder if Lotus or Toyota has been developing a high output version of the 2.4, and we're being forced to wait on some Toyota corporate announcement before Lotus can say it's going in the Elise.

Debate away :-)
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 01:22 PM
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Interesting. I think a revamped 2.4l VVTi Camry engine would be almost a perfect choice. Just like my old 2.2l Camry engine based MR-2... which affectionately refered to as the "tractor motor" because it had gobs of low end torque (and no upper end).

Does anyone have the torque curve for the 2.4l Camry engine?

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Chase
Does anyone have the torque curve for the 2.4l Camry engine?
arghh... I know I've come across a better one... still searching, but for now - if you squint just right...



edit: getting better:


Last edited by BrianK; 06-21-2003 at 02:25 PM.
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 11:43 PM
 
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Regarding the 2ZZ-GE motor, why wouldn't Toyota decide to make the power band smoother? After a set of cams more aggersive pre-lift cam lobes woudl help smooth the car out a bit. In addition Toyota has the ability to create any sort of fuel and timing map they want with this engine. This would also make the car even more exclusive by having a unique engine.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-21-2003, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
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Regarding the 2ZZ-GE motor, why wouldn't Toyota decide to make the power band smoother?
plain and simple, they wanted it to pass emmisions and be able to claim 30+ mpg, while still being able to boast about 190 hp output.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 01:14 AM
 
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Just put the japanese Altezza RS200 engine 2.0L 220hp that will be sweet
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Chase
I believe it is. Until I saw a pic of it, it was not even on my color radar. Now it's high on my list of colors.

ON second thought... the next pic is the Quartz. Maybe a reflection of the backgrounds and ambient colors?
It was your common, everyday light silver, nothing special but it *did* look a lot nicer on that car than I expected.

'05 Elise, Magnetic Blue / Biscuit / Hardtop
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-23-2003, 01:25 AM
 
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the 30 MPG figure is usign a 2500lb Celica. I'm sure for a sub 2000lb pure sports car they woudl be wiling to make a slight concession in effciency for a smootehr and larger powerband.
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