Snobbery? E-"pimping" and other Friday musings... - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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Snobbery? E-"pimping" and other Friday musings...

Maybe Im wrong, but Ive been detecting subtle hints of snobbery among the ranks of Lotus owners.....Elise vs Esprit. A gentleman AIM'd me the other day ( he apparently saw my AIM name on my profile on the official Lotus site) and wanted to say "hello" to me. I said hello and he asked if I had recieved my car yet. I laughed and said "no". He said, "oh.....you have an elise on order? I thought you had an Esprit. Never mind. No offense the elise is underpowered. I like V8's". Then he logged off. LMAO!!

Seems Esprit owners are above all else. This strikes me as odd, because I could buy an Esprit if I wanted, but I *choose* not to. You can buy them all day long in great shape for $20-40. Im not trying to reverse discriminate, but whats the big deal? I love the car but it just doesnt move me like the Elise does.

Also, E-pimping.

Ive recently discovered Im the only female on this and several other forums. This isnt something I care to point out or make a deal of...who cares, right?

Since joining the official Lotus site Ive had about 7 different men AIM me asking me all manner of questions. I mountain bike, snowboard, race cars and mod cars so Im used to speaking primarily with men, and this is fine with me. Gender doesnt matter to me when discussing thigns Im passionate about. What really IRKS me is that Im hoping to have a nice conversation about Lotus and the conversation ALWAYS seems to go downhill.

Sometimes it starts out promising with questions about cars and racing, but within moments it seems the convo turns to several all important questions....


1. So....do you have any pics of yourself?

2. So...do you have an online profile?

3. So..how old are you?

4. So....do you have a boyfriend or anything?

5. So...what do you do for a living and how old are you?

6. So..do you make a lot of money? Whats your income!?

Whats my income!!!!! LOL,where do these people come from!

This wouldnt be quite so bad if it was just innocent flirting or just young men being "young men", but when I dont play into their whims and I continue to discuss cars they seem to lose interest...even if I was looking for an SO I would still not appreciate such thinly veiled attempts.



I understand guys are little different than women in this respect so I dont mind the occassional young man asking me in a polite way about my status...but it seems more often than not Its treated like a singles message board/meat market.

The best part is that 90% of them know less about cars than I do, but after I dont show interest in their advances they get nasty and want to argue about cars. One guy said "well the elise has no power, I only drive cars with lots of power". He then bragged about his Nissan with has 300hp and what a handful it is to drive. He asked what I drive, and I said I have "miatas". he laughed and said..."oh I guess you're not used to much of a car anyway so the elise will feel powerful to you".

I laughed a little then told him, I have 3 mazda miatas in my driveway with combined horspower of 1,200 to the wheels and even if I had stock horsepower my cars weigh about 1000lbs LESS than your land sled. For some reason he went silent.
Power to weight and suspension talk would have been completely lost on him.

Im not complaining to you guys, nor am I saying Im not sometimes flattered, but sometimes I get a little miffed that we just cant respect each other and talk about cars.


Just my friday observations. Have a great weekend everyone.
Jenn




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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 06:51 AM
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HI Jenn,
Post a pic of Roseanne Barr, that you're unemployed, married with 6 kids, a huge mortgage, and btw likes cars, mtn biking, etc.

That should thin out a lot of the suitors..

I think what you're experiencing from certain Esprit owners out there is exception rather than rule. I was fortunate enough to own a couple Esprits and attended lots of LOGs over the years, and encountered some of the nicest people, men and women.

As with all high dollar sports cars, they'll always be a percentage of putz' owning them, but fortunately I think the number is rather low.

The Elise coming into production back in the late 90s was a major change for Lotus, very similar to when Lotus moved "upmarket" in the 70s from the Elan, Europa to the new Esprit. Looking at the UK bbs, you can see the demos have definately changed from the Esprit days, Elise owners are much younger (understandable as the Elise is significantly less expensive).

Well, I've rambled on long enough. Going to pick up a Ducati M800 motorcycle I just bought.
Chris
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 07:19 AM
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I don't believe that you are the only woman on this forum or the Lotus Cars Forum, from the tone of certain posts I've seen, but probably most of us are men. Since you revealed your sex and age, it's not too surprising that you have sparked some interest. After all, you are buying a hot car and you race and you are female; if I were single, I would be interested in meeting you. As you seem to know, guys are like that!

I would have hoped that prospective Elise owners would be subtle and creative in their approaches to you. If that's not the case and these advances are unwelcome, then you have a right to be annoyed.

Personally, I find it pretty easy to ignore e-mails that are annoying or intrusive. However, I must admit that I seem to be fighting a losing battle in eliminating some of the spam that comes my way. But it's fairly easy to delete stuff that doesn't interest you.

One thing about the anonymity of the Internet is that one can pretend to be whatever one wishes to be. Perhaps you can play with these guys; send them a picture of a gorgeous babe, or a gorgeous guy, or a not-so-attractive person, and tell them it's you. Or just tell them that you aren't interested, it's none of your business, etc. Or that you're gay. Or celibate. Or have AIDS. Or ignore them.

By the way, pimping is when you supply people to others for sex. Guys hitting on you doesn't fit the definition.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 07:39 AM
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So....DO you have any pics of yourself?

2007 Exige S - Krypton Green - VF Stage 2 - RLS Intercooler - Volk TE37s - B&M Shifter - 2bular header & exhaust - Sector111 motorsport engine mounts - stripes - harnesses - Pagid pads - Green air filter
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 07:42 AM
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Re: Snobbery? E-"pimping" and other Friday musings...

Quote:
Originally posted by OneFastMiata
Since joining the official Lotus site Ive had about 7 different men AIM me asking me all manner of questions
Well, there's your problem right there...you're lurking around that "other" message board!

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jml1952
I don't believe that you are the only woman on this forum or the Lotus Cars Forum, from the tone of certain posts I've seen, but probably most of us are men. Since you revealed your sex and age, it's not too surprising that you have sparked some interest. After all, you are buying a hot car and you race and you are female; if I were single, I would be interested in meeting you. As you seem to know, guys are like that!

Personally, I find it pretty easy to ignore e-mails that are annoying or intrusive. However, I must admit that I seem to be fighting a losing battle in eliminating some of the spam that comes my way. But it's fairly easy to delete stuff that doesn't interest you.

One thing about the anonymity of the Internet is that one can pretend to be whatever one wishes to be. Perhaps you can play with these guys; send them a picture of a gorgeous babe, or a gorgeous guy, or a not-so-attractive person, and tell them it's you. Or just tell them that you aren't interested, it's none of your business, etc. Or that you're gay. Or celibate. Or have AIDS. Or ignore them.

By the way, pimping is when you supply people to others for sex. Guys hitting on you doesn't fit the definition.
Somehow I think you take my comments way too serious.

If I had know you were an e-pimp definition expert I wouldnt have used that term. E-pimp is a slang term ive heard used for heavy hitting on people on the net, I wont argue semantics.

Yes, its easy to ignore people, of this I am aware, I was commenting on the act itself and what instigates it.
I cant "delete" people popping up on AIM. I can remove my AIM addy from the board, but thats a real shame isnt it?

Im not really asking for solutions to the problem. Im supremely aware of my options, I told one guy I sold flowers on a street corner.....I was more or less discussing the issue in general.

Where are the women on this forum and the other forum? I had not noticed any but I wasnt really looking.


BTW, Ijust noticed your profession. My other passion in life, one that Ive considered applying for a position on New Zealand research ships, is Architeuthis.




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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Re: Snobbery? E-"pimping" and other Friday musings...

Quote:
Originally posted by MattG
Well, there's your problem right there...you're lurking around that "other" message board!






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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 10:08 AM
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LOL....

It seems to be a few things at work here.

It's a joke on some forums, for guys to always ask to see a pic of a female. It's a bit tired, but it's true. A common trait of males is to be very visual oriented, and also be incredibly optimistic about their chances at hooking up. It may come from reading too much Penthouse Forum... "Dear Forum, I never thought these stories were true, until one day while driving in my new Elise, this hot...."

The other thing is that some other forums, which I will not name, seem to have more of their share of clueless users. Perhaps some of them are just kids? Or emotionally stunted. Or just stunted and compensating for something.

And car guys like women that share their interests. Not very common. And intelligence. Always a good thing.

But I understand, I get some odd conversations also. Which is why I changed my AIM name, and quit giving it out.

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There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 10:28 AM
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I have been wondering for a while the other issue you raised.

I have seen a few responses on another forum about how the normal Lotus owner acts. But it's one thing to own something that was only made and imported in smaller numbers. Also, any car club centered around a tempermental car insures a good comraderie, like those that have been to battle together in a war. You can share car break down stories... and you all know you need each other for spare parts and help. The more specialized, older, or rarer the car is, the more close knit the group. The more they share common traits.

But here, we have a new car. Bringing in a new and larger group of people. A lot of interest from people that may never buy this car, or can't afford it. And we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg here. When there is more news and specially when this thing actually hits the streets, the buzz will really expand. We will see a lot more people, more clueless included.

How has the old guard reacted? How will they react? I have been around this to a much smaller extent before. My guess is that some of the old guard will not like the new crowd. A lot of the new Elise buyers will not undertstand why someone else owns that old Lotus with such a small engine for example.

Will this new group successfully merge into Lotus Owners Group or will there be some division? I don't know.

#somethingwickedthiswaycomes... the new Origin Noble M and the Origin 7

Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 10:35 AM
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Good points, Randy. This and the Lotus Forum are my first forays into the chat world, so I probably fall into the clueless user category. I'm not a kid, but I'm willing to accept emotionally stunted and compensating as valid descriptors.

Mainly, I suspect that we are all so bored out of our minds and frustrated with the lack of any real info from Lotus about our car, that we will sieze upon any topic to keep involved.

I did not even know that the Elise existed until Jan 2003, but now I am obsessed with the thought of owning one and wondering how to retain some of my sanity until April 2004.

Anyway, you created a great forum. I've noticed that many of us seem to be participating in this one, as well as the "official" Lotus forum, and probably others that I haven't joined. I've learned a lot that has been interesting/informative and it helps keep the obsession in check. Thanks.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 11:22 AM
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Frankly I'm not surprised at this at all...

Hell, if I wasn't happily married, I can imagine trying to chat you up. :-)

My wife isn't particularly into motorsports, although she is very supportive of my interest. She spent several days at the Nurburgring with me last year, and was fairly annoyed when I sold my '65 Lotus Elan. Of course that might have had more to do with the fact that we drove away from our wedding in it, than any real visceral "driving" connection to it.

She really likes the Elise and is looking forward to the day it arrives so she can get my M3 full-time instead of her Saab.

Anyway, if you're a single guy and "looking" I can imagine the excitement of finding someone who is obviously intelligent and articulate, shares the same interests and has the wherewithal and resources to indulge in those interests. I also have a good enough imagination to see how it could become very annoying very quickly.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Well, fwiw, I just enjoy chatting about cars so I guess sometimes it grates on me when things get reduced to singles line within 5 minutes and I dont even TRY to lead the convo that way! LOL, I cant imagine how easy it would be if I did.

Also, if women did this to my fiancee I'd probably feel inclined to strangle them all! lol, oh well, such is life on the internet.




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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jml1952

Anyway, you created a great forum. I've noticed that many of us seem to be participating in this one, as well as the "official" Lotus forum, and probably others that I haven't joined. I've learned a lot that has been interesting/informative and it helps keep the obsession in check. Thanks.
Thanks. By the way, I was NOT thinking of you when I said clueless. I am very pleased with the quality of the posters here. It was a surprise that Lotus did their own forum, but I hope we can co-exist in a different way, with a different forum personality.

The other good forum resources are seloc
http://forums.seloc.org/index.php

But it has a very UK slant to it of course, so you will see a lot of threads about UK events, but there is good info and entertaining users there.

http://lotus.roadfly.org/lotus/forums/elise/forum.php

I like Roadfly a lot, but I dislike ANY forum that uses threaded messaging like this. Each new message shows all the previous messages down and then they drift into oblivion. I know some people like that style of board, I do not. It seems to me that people are only interested in the latest 1 or 2 conversations. More of a chat facility though it works well to get out recent information. Try replying to a thread on page 3 and see if anyone responds?

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Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 12:33 PM
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On the old and new Lotus owners. Always consider the Esprit a board line super car (in the last few years overdue for a redesign). Most of the owner probably think likewise. Would think most of the old time owners of the Elan, etc. would think of the Elise as a modern day equivalent. The long time history does give them a greater appreciation for what Lotus and there cars stands for. Most of the Elise owner will be new to Lotus and will look at the car more on it own merits. With the large numbers it'll take a bit of time to adjust to each other. It will be interesting to see how that shapes up.

Some of us when young where pretty clueless.

I'd agree that overall this is the best message board .
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 03:04 PM
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I agree with Larry. I think that there are probably three groups.

1) Those with the classic Lotus models like the Elan, Europa, and the Seven: super-light, low-powered cars.
2) Esprit owners, who a lot of money for the privelige of driving a high-powered ultra-refined exotic.
3) Prospective Elise owners.

Personally, I think that there would be a lot in common between groups 1 & 3, except maybe age (a lot of those in group 3 probably would be in group 1 if they had been old enough to buy an Elan or Europa when they were new).

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Stimson


Personally, I think that there would be a lot in common between groups 1 & 3, except maybe age (a lot of those in group 3 probably would be in group 1 if they had been old enough to buy an Elan or Europa when they were new).
I think that is an excellent point.

#somethingwickedthiswaycomes... the new Origin Noble M and the Origin 7

Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-01-2003, 04:03 PM
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Then there were those of us who were lucky enough/crazy enough to belong to group 1 when they were teenagers and belong to group 3 in their 30's :-)

Bought my '65 Elan for under $6000 in '87... seemed like a fortune at the time, but worth every penny.
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2003, 08:05 AM
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Randy-

Thanks for pointing me to more forums (fora?).

I agree that the threading style used on the Roadfly site is annoying and tedious, but some interesting information.

I like the SELOC site. Much of the stuff obviously is irrelevant to us, but I'm a Europhile and find it interesting to see the British point of view. Also, those people seem to be having a lot of fun and seem to be pretty friendly with one another. I didn't have time to read much, but I did notice posts from a woman in Surrey who actually presents her picture and age (gasp). I was tempted to hit on her, but someone might rip out my spleen (e.g., my wife).
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2003, 01:36 PM
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There are hundreds of women on the SELOC and BCBBS messageboards. I can't remember a problem ever cropping up on the boards themselves.... Might be something to do with the fact that SELOC does a lot of meets where "lurkers" fear to tread.

I'd love to see what would happen if some guy walked up to a fellow SELOC woman in that type of situation asking the same questions he would if he was online (a slap to the face, or a comeback so bad he froze on the spot) - but it'll never happen!

There's too much of a sense of humour (maybe a lack of "taking oneself seriously") going on...

see pics for more!

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-02-2003, 01:37 PM
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no way!!
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