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Starting issue

3K views 20 replies 5 participants last post by  waddy 
#1 ·
I have an daily driven 05 stock Elise with a stage two ex with a peculiar start up issue, the engine and starter wont crank. Alarm module and fuse was removed 16 months ago, keyfob wouldn't unlock https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f259/locked-out-no-dash-light-447978/. A few months later dashboard/tachometer works intermittently, fuel gauge reads wrong.
After placing the key in the ignition and turning it to the second indent, dashboard, stereo light up, hear fuel pump prime. Then pressed/hold start button once no click from engine bay and nothing. Weird thing is this happened once a few weeks ago then I left sit overnight and came back the next morning to have it work fine for the next week so didn't think it was a problem. Then it stopped working again. Jumped it to drive it to the mechanic. But before that tried the inertia switch no click, moved it back a little in case of misalignment nothing.

-Found immobilizer fuse missing, replaced and now starting dash issues went away. However now it doesn't need a key to run. Since it didn't need the key, now it didn't turn off unless the fuse for the immobilizer was pulled.
-Pulled starter button, checked the internal spring thing which seemed good contact with the bar. However I did notice it wasn't lit up when driving at night a while ago if it ever did?
- Checked fuses for continuity
- Cleaned any poor contacts on fuses
- Checked all visible grounds for continuity and corrosion
- Left battery disconnected for a while
- Attempted different combinations of starting with and without immobilizer switch fuse

Then for what ever reason it just started working absolutely perfectly dashboard included for the next three days and then it wouldn't start up again.

-Disconnected battery, left for 3 days reconnected and same issue. Got some weird readings from it and it was near the end of its life so replaced with another. Saw a scosche positive terminal wire here too? Still back to square one.

Something up with the ignition switch or immobilizer circuit, ecu programming? Maybe need a immobilizer bypass I keep reading about? Anyone have similar experience before I try to get it on a 5 hour trip to the closest dealer?
 
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#3 ·
By sticky relays, do you mean the mfru?
Well decided to recheck the fuses again, then tried starting it up after leaving it disconnected since I last posted this and it started up perfectly.
However a something else is happening, the alarm light on the dash is blinking very fast intermittently and goes away when I hit around 40mph+. Instrument cluster worked fine for 20min then after starting up again it went its normal nonworking self. Also the battery light stayed when in the second ignition slot but disappeared after starting the engine, didn't happen continuously 2 in 6 startups cycles, anything to worry about?
I'll see how long this lasts me now, what on earth is causing all this. Sputtering alarm light pointing to the immobilizer?
 
#4 ·
This is a weird one! Just my two cents. I am by no means a Lotus electrical guru. But this has sticky relay written on it. Don't forget the relay unit on the fire wall. It causes all kinds of weird stuff.
 
#5 ·
It's a strange problem indeed. I just want to throw something out there: how or where is the car stored? Is it possible rodents took up residence under the dash at some point? It seems these Lotus dashes make great winter homes for natures little creatures.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well another 6 days and it stopped working, there's almost a pattern here. Stops, works for about 6 days then dies. Maybe it has to due with the heat and relay stop working till it cools down? Taking it to a local to have the relays looked at.

Edit
Spoke too soon, its up again. Did the following, -remove r4 and r2 -disconnected battery. left for 6 minutes, pressed on the brakesto bleed the last energy out of ecu? -reattached battery, pit fuses in. -tried starting after putting the key in ignition. -Thought it didn't work, left the key in stage 2 of the ignition where the fuel pump primes and then waited 3min, pressed the start button and it started.... I really got nothing. Red light flicker still exists.
Something else I noticed, activating the headlights causes the led square in the instruments thing to dim. Going to open up the instruments cluster now to check on it.

Does anyone know where to get a more detailed wiring diagram then the one posted on here that was colorcoded?
 
#9 ·
Waiting for the mfru to come in. Another update the car died after two cycles and also would not start using jumpers and a check engine and oil and battery light were on before pressing start. Tried doing the same thing as I did last time but didn't wait 30 minutes and it didn't start.Was able to get it push started. Does this narrow it down to the immobilizer or maybe starter?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Was able to get it push started. Does this narrow it down to the immobilizer or maybe starter?
i think so. that it could be push started means that the ignition/power/trinary switch, spark control, fuel delivery and ecu controls all work. I'm not too familiar with the immobilizer, but a look at the wiring diagram should tell you if the car can run while supposedly immobilized. maybe the starter is the last remaining suspect?

that being said, i wouldn't jump to replacing it before putting a multimeter on its poles while trying to crank in order to confirm wiring continuity.
 
#13 ·
Unless you have a rear clam hinge it might be a coin toss as to which one would be easiest to troubleshoot. Unless you have a rear clam hinge you'll probably have to jack the car and pull the engine access panel to check to see if the starter is getting a signal from the ignition switch. To access the immobilizer you'll have to pull the seats and rear speaker panel to gain access to the immobilizer. Neither is particularly hard, just a little time-consuming. Let me know how it goes, I've got my interior gutted and the front and rear clams are off so I have good visibility if it might help.
 
#17 ·
Can you try to probe the wires on the multi-function relay unit while they are still plugged in? That way the circuit isn't interrupted during the troubleshooting. Terminal 6 on the MFRU should be the crank signal from the start button (it passes through the immobilizer on its way to the MFRU). If you don't have voltage coming to that terminal, my next check would be the immobilizer, here is a thread about how to disable it if that is your wish.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f320/permanently-disabling-immobiliser-alarm-107492/
 
#19 ·
Uh right now we are getting 0 voltage on the 4,6 terminals while key in and pressing button? Is it something with the start switch? Both the immobilizer and starter decided to die, but we have voltage at starter so just immobilzer? Or prehaps its the starter button? Does anyone know what voltage I should be getting with the button?
Also when we had it unplugged we could tell when the button was being pressed but it was loosing voltage ie the 4-3.7v, but probing the wires now with it in we aren't getting anything.
 
#20 ·
My guess is that it is the immobilizer. You can check power at the starter button, with the key turned on there should be battery voltage at the green wire (fuse F13). If you have battery voltage at the start button, then it almost has to be the immobilizer; which means it's time to pull the seats. Things at the starter seem OK for now considering that things upstream of it aren't reading correctly.
 
#21 ·
Thanks to everyone for all the help! Especially you Jet blast! Immobilizer bypassed, and its starting up every time now. It appears the immobilizer was rolling around back there for who knows how long, someone hadn't properly secured it, it was stuck on with tape and it appeared to fall off. Not 100% sure the issue is fixed since it was so intermittent but time will tell.
 
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