Starting the Rebuild Process - 06 Elise - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 210 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Well probably one of the most satisfying days I've ever had with a car.
Everyone was telling me not to do this track day. The temps being too cold for these tires, the oil being cooled too much on the stock car to allow it to get up to temp on this cold day, and the fact that both my wife and I felt like we were getting sick the day before.

But despite those things, and having several scares, I had a crazy good time.

Arrived late, and went out with the Novices first. Went out easy and I was still passing a large portion of the field.
Temps started cool about 32 degrees, the tires were understandably not that grippy, but seemed consistent to start. The one turn in the shade had considerably and predictably less grip, but everything seemed good. Back end would move around but very controllable.

And like I thought, I got away with doing the whole track in third. so just worked on my line.
Anyway the first part of the day is fun but pretty uneventful, but by lunch time I had more track time under my belt than if I had AutoX'd all season.
I have the full 20 minute session of the laps but they're over a Gig, short vid instead from my wife track side:

After lunch, I had someone ask to ride along, and of course about 4 laps out, the traction is becoming really inconsistent. Like every 5-10 laps all of a sudden a corner is just not what it used to be, and I have my first pretty major off

No biggie, this is why I chose the track with run off areas (and this off would be referenced later in the day by the staff, but more on that later)

A couple more sessions go by, it's becoming late afternoon, everyone's having a good time and then BOOM. We all knew the noise and everyone runs over to the guardrail. A miata in the Novice group came around the off camber left hander in front of the gardrail, and when he ran out of track, instead of just letting it roll out into the grass, he over-corrected and snap oversteered head first, full speed directly into the guardrail. Car was totalled, both frame rails to the engine toast, both spindles and wheels destroyed, airbags deployed obviously, it was a worst case scenario type accident.



So the instructors rounded everyone up and went through some pointers, reminding people that you can always just use the grass, referencing that Black Lotus in the car having such a beautiful and controlled off earlier in the day

The second that crash happened, I said, I'm done. Like this has been a great day, I've had 5 20 min sessions, the car's run great, no need to push my luck. But I don't know... within 30 mins I change my mind, and say ahh hell with it. I'll go slow. Why not use all of the track time. Plus the Sun's setting and other than getting colder, it's really nice out. I even say, to hell with it I'm going to put some music on an enjoy.
So I go out there going really slow. I start at a 1:26, then a 1:16, then a 1:14, then 1:13, then a pair of 1:12's fastest laps of the day.
Perfect song came on so I started picking it up:

Out side the car it's FIREBALL city :drive:



And I just can't help myself even though the crash earlier shook me I just kept getting after it harder and harder until I have another little incident:
I remember clutching in and looking over my shoulder mid spin to back it across the track. I could have parallel parked it if there was a parking space.

From the outside, it's more dramatic:

The last session ends shortly afterwards and I make it back to the pits unscathed, although very much achieved my goal of pushing myself and the car.


And at the end of the day she made it through the cold, the off track adventures and through most of the field. I passed almost everyone in the intermediate group and I never had to give a single point by all day. I'm pretty damn happy.


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post #62 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Parts are starting to trickle in for the build this winter.
But just to re-cap the very end of the season before getting into that:
I was so hooked after the last event. I had to do one more before the end of the season.
I ended up doing a high speed autoX the next weekend, and I found a BWR front sway bar used for sale, so I purchased it and installed it before the autoX.
The event was a disaster, but I got a few good photos, and the sway bar while greatly reducing the body lean from the factory Track pack suspension, was way too stiff for the conditions/surface and the car understeer'd heavily.





Installing the BWR bar:



I feel like I could bend the factory bar over my knee. I'm still getting used to how dainty most of the parts are for this car.



High speed AutoX action shots. Can't believe the car is leaning this much with how stiff the new sway bar feels:




Wanted to address that body roll, so I took advantage of the black friday sale and picked up some Penske Double adjustables and some self lubricating bushings. I don't actually know what these bushings are made of, but it's really stiff, stiffer than Delrin it seems:


At this point the suspension will be about as good as it gets on the Lotus platform.


Plan for this winter's build has changed many times, but I think I'm getting a bit clearer on how to get what I'm looking to do.
I drove the car today for what will probably be the last time before it comes apart, and even being away from it for a month, I came back to it and the power wasn't sufficient. I need more power in the car, and the current vendor who installed the TVS1320 and tuned the car is saying that it will take tens of thousands of dollars to get into the high 300s range and I'd likely have to send the car to them across the country.

So it was at that point that I decided I'm not going to move forward with the Rev400 kit (Tvs1320 setup) any further.

I had played with the idea heavily of swapping in a K20 and I'm still not opposed to that, in fact that was my idea before buying the car, was to swap it immediately, but the cost is obviously high, and the thought of the shifter feel being likely worse than stock is kinda hard to swallow after you just spent so much money.
I was a bit lost as to what to do and I still don't have it all figured out, but I started looking at Dyno graphs of some turbo 2ZZs and noticed that the graph didn't look so bad. I started doing some research and I saw some nationally competitive Miatas running Borg Warner EFR turbos. Even the smallest EFR turbo makes 350whp possibly 400 on E85, which is my goal (400 whp when running the E85 map)

If the turbos are responsive enough for AutoX on a motor that's got less head flow, and lower compression than the 2ZZ than the 2zz shouldn't have an issue spooling it either. And it looks like at 3k rpm most of these small turbos make more torque than even the TVS setups.
At least from what the miata guys are saying the EFRs walk all over comparable GTXs in terms of lag and transient response.

So it sold me on the idea of turboing the car.
But of course none of the off the shelf kits fit the EFR turbos, and it's unknown if I can even use an off the shelf manifold because turbocharging doesn't seem to be popular in the lotus community.

So I might use a site like Build Your Own Custom Set Of Headers With Our Header Build Kits - Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc. to make a custom turbo manifold or there's a local header shop but they don't generally work with stainless. So if I do a sch 40 mild steel pipe manifold I might use them. There's even a Jet hot shop right across the street, 1 mile away.

Still need to figure out mounting.
Still need to figure out Cooling. Air to Water Intercooler A2W was recommended to me, but I'll need to figure this out as no one seems to have built their own setups for the Elige.
Also need to figure out a plug and play standalone which will run well with an easy way to plug back in the factory PCM and be able to pass OBD2 emissions. The car runs a flashed factory PCM which can be tuned, the only thing I worry about is the secondary O2 cel running without a cat.
Also need to find a tuner locally.

But otherwise it seems like something achievable over the winter, especially if I can find ways to make off the shelf parts work.
We have a very long winter, in which I can do the bulk of the work, and we have a very long cold and miserable spring too, which is warm enough to test the car, but will give me time to work the bugs out before the summer.

The bottom end with lower compression forged pistons is plenty stout, and for the top end, probably just SS valves/valvesprings for safety.
The transmission, not so much. I'm going to replace 3rd and 4th which are the weakest, and I'll still need to be careful.
Depending on the turbo I go with the car will be capable of 400-450 whp with full spool around 3500 rpms.

But wait, there's more
The front clam will be replaced, and the rear clam will be repaired. I haven't found the right shop to paint the car so I'm going to have a buddy liquid wrap it. If you're not familiar with it, look up liquid wrap or autofelx on youtube. This is a bit of a waste of money, but I want an orange car, but I don't want to take the depreciation hit of painting it orange, so this temporary solution will work until I find the right shop.

There's a pretty new and awesome pearl available for liquid wraps, called Tupelo, which is pretty close to what the end result color will look like, but I'll likely tweak it a bit:








It's going to be a busy winter, and right now I'm balancing this with a total remodel of our bathroom which we're working to get finished before Christmas
Bathroom current state:


Stay tuned, things are about to start heating up big time with this build
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post #63 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 02:21 PM
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this is a great thread. I'm especially interested in the nitty-gritty details of setting up the engine management for the turbo.

the simplicity and reliability of an NA engine is laudable, but the flexibility of a turbo in changing the volumetric efficiency of an engine dynamically seems to me to afford either NA-like operation, or large power, depending on how it's set up.
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post #64 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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I'm especially interested in the nitty-gritty details of setting up the engine management for the turbo.
Me too, I'll figure it out, and I'll make sure to post everything to this forum with the good, bad and ugly. I'm sure there will be a little bit of it all.
I wouldn't go turbo unless I felt very strongly that I could keep the nature of the engine. This isn't going to be a highway racing monster. I'm actually in the belief that the motor will make more area under the curve than the TVS everywhere other than maybe 2,000 rpm, but from 3,000 rpm and above the turbo should be making more power.

I couldn't find a way to take advantage of the E85 locally with the TVS blower and the flashed factory PCM. Which is one of the reasons I was looking at a Rotrex, to use a wastegate to control boost (like a turbo) then I just said why try to control a rotrex like a turbo, why not just go turbo (well because of lag obviously)
So how much power can I make without considerable lag, was the question going through my head, and then when I saw Miatas pulling 350whp with turbos on their AutoX cars... that woke me up. I know serious autoX guys have no patience for turbo lag.
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post #65 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so here's the plan thus far for the engine/transmission modifications this winter. My goal is to create a relatively simple plan/blueprint, that others can copy, to getting to 400whp in the Elige platform via a turbocharger without any lag what-so-ever, while keeping the car completely street friendly.

I'm REALLY looking for the boards help in poking holes in this plan so that I can address as many issues proactively as possible. I wanted to work with vendors trying to adapt certain elements of existing offerings, but I've been told by a couple vendors now, that I'm too far outside of their standard game plan for them to be able to assist me any further.
That's fine, and I know I have the general knowledge to make this happen, but I don't have the 2ZZ and Elise specific knowledge and I'll really need everyone's help filling in the gaps.

So, here's the recipe I'm planning

Engine Prep - Major Components
- 10:5:1 Compression Mahle Pistons
- Stainless Steel Valves / Valve springs
- Port matched intake and Exhaust ports

Transmission Prep
- Jubu 3rd and 4th
- Refresh 2nd gear synchro proactively
- Was planning on keeping the ACT HDSS Clutch (Not drag racing the car, but the mid range torque of these turbo's might be too much for this clutch)
- Fidanza Flywheel


Turbo
- EFR 6258 .64 or EFR 6758. - I'd like to use the vband version on these and still might but part of the reason they respond so well is due to the small T25 and the .64 AR. The 6258 has been shown to build positive manifold pressure on other 1.8L motors around 2,000 rpm, hitting full boost under 3,000 rpm depending on amount of boost, manifold design etc. These turbos are so much better than the GTX series turbos on small motors that even the Miata guys are seeing instant boost and making 400whp with them, and the BP motor is much harder to make power with.
- Turbo manifold will be custom. I might attempt building this myself if the design is simple enough, but it will be designed from pipe. As in plumbers pipe. Pipe is relatively cheaper, plenty thick and very very durable and comes in 304 and 316 stainless which are preferred. You could also make the manifold from very thick mild steel pipe, but it would be heavier, and still likely fail down the road. https://www.aceraceparts.com/ pricing seems to be about 30% less expensive than McMaster Carr the other popular supplier of these types of items.
- A2W setup from Air to Water Intercooler . Using the largest setup I can fit, but from rough measurements their 600whp KIT should fit, I would suggest upgrading to the Bosh pump, which comes factory on a couple A2W cars: Water to Air Intercooler

This would be the general arrangement of the components, very similar to the Radium turbo set up, but the turbo would likely need to mount slightly lower and I might need to trim the trunk slightly. The fewer of these things I can get away with I will, but the EFR turbo is larger externally because of it's integrated Wastegate and BOV, and different vendors have told me space is tight in that general area. And I can't mount the turbo too low or else we'll need a scavenger pump to get oil from turbo to pan (another potential point of failure)BTW Radium let me know that they are NOT selling turbo kits or parts for the Elige any more:



Engine Management
I need to pass emissions, so I need to retain the factory PCM but I also would like to take advantage of the local E85 so I need a standalone as well. Something that is plug and play and runs the factory dash.
Adaptronic seems to be the cheapest option, a big support community, a couple local tuners list it as one of the systems they support, and no one's given me a good answer on why I need a more expensive system.. but honestly open to input here. Tuning isn't my forte, and I want the car to be reliable and run well.

Fuel
It looks like the Walbro 255 in the tank currently will support the 400whp E85 numbers, but I'll be pretty close.
I don't want to change injectors between my pump gas and E85 maps, I'd like have a flex fuel sensor and just flip the map on a switch. This would also make emissions time easier.. I'll just need to figure this out with a local tuner


Tuning
BOE for the Factory PCM flashed with an Emissions friendly tune - We just have OBD2 testing here in MA. So Readiness needs to be set for all systems, and only 1 is allowed to be not Ready, which I'm assuming in my case will be Evap or Secondary 02. Then once I'm through emissions the plan is just to swap back to the Standalone ECU in the parking lot before pulling out, which is why it's truely got to be plug and play.


Funding
If I do this I'm going to be selling my Rev400 kit, and I think I'll be able to cover the cost of the Turbo portion of this build with the money made from selling the Rev400 setup second hand. Which means that others would be able to duplicate it for less than the cost of most of the options currently available.


The custom turbo manifold is obviously the part that would be hard for others to duplicate so my thought is that I'll build the manifold using PVC pipe first, then keep that as a template. So that if others want to duplicate, I'll loan them the PVC template so they can send to a company like Build Your Own Custom Set Of Headers With Our Header Build Kits - Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc.
who will take that that template and turn it into a complete manifold with the most beautiful TIG welds for around $1,000

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post #66 of 210 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 03:38 PM
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I hope you do! Get it done before this time next year please so I can run it in the 2019 track season
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post #67 of 210 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 07:47 PM
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Might be a chance OBX would take your exhaust template and produce some for the world
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post #68 of 210 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 09:50 AM
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Let me know when you're ready to sell the REV400 kit. Definitely interested.
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post #69 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Well it's been a busy winter, both with house projects and with business. It's going to be spring next month and I haven't touched the car much.

So big plans for this winter seem out the window, but I am pulling all of the body work and I'm going to be doing the suspension this year with some other minor revisions.
The plan for the bodywork has changed multiple times but at the end of the day I still can't figure out what I want to paint the car, and I've always wanted an orange car, so I'm going to use the AutoFlex product that I mentioned. It should last 5-7 years with how I use the car (Summer / weekend driving and garage storage)

Front clam is already off the car and the front clam has been block sanded (yes still need to replace the front crash structure, but that didn't stop me from taking it for the first drive of the season.
Barely made it back from the bodyshop before sun down, and passed 3 cops on the way over with no incidents =)



So tonight I embarked in a short 2 hour project (whoever said this took 2 hours must be a lotus master tech) Between the custom interior, and the sound system it was much much harder to remove the rear clam. The bulkhead had some extra bolts holding it in place behind the subwoower, and some extra glue, and none of the wires had quick disconnects on ANYTHING so I'll be soldering in some for to make this much easier in the future. I can only imagine how much more the car will squeek and rattle every time it gets pulled apart.

Passenger seat out:



Remnants of the last owner under the passenger seat:
This might help explain the previous owner a bit



More interesting items under the seat:
I thought this was lube when I first saw it. There seems to be womens products all over this car. Purple eyeliner, multiple lipsticks, etc... The last owner was a guy...



Both Seats out. Had to run to the store to get an extension but it was smooth sailing at this point:





Things went way off the rails trying to get the bulkhead off. Turns out there were some hidden fasteners and glue, that were not there stock. Whoever did this interior didn't think about it coming apart again one day:




Rear Deck Lid Off The Car:





First Attempt At Pulling The Clam:




Turns out even though I disconnected all of the stock wiring there was an absolute mass of wires still left to label and pull from the sound system/amps in the back:
I've seen chassis harnesses with fewer wires than this damn thing:




And finally at 11PM:

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post #70 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 08:16 PM
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Good update, thank you! I'm about to pull the rear clam from my project car as well.

Question, did you have to cut the weather stripping? I recall reading that in the instructions but wasn't sure if it was necessary.

Also, is the clam light enough to remove by one person or will I need help?

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post #71 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Good update, thank you! I'm about to pull the rear clam from my project car as well.

Question, did you have to cut the weather stripping? I recall reading that in the instructions but wasn't sure if it was necessary.

Also, is the clam light enough to remove by one person or will I need help?
Hey Man, I'm sorry I didn't answer you earlier.
The clam is a very very tedious job, at least mine was because I have a completely custom interior that I didn't install so it was a matter of trying to figure out how everything went together along with a totally custom audio system that i needed to pull apart.

The clam though is very light, I'm sure you could lift it off yourself, it's just very flexy, so I wanted to have someone else to support the other side.
I didn't have to cut the weather stripping but you do need to pull it off the double stick tape that holds it on and let it hang loose to give you enough space to pull off the rear clam
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post #72 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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More work accomplished today on the car.

Some questions on installing the bushings if @fzust is listening I'm installing the BWR DA penskes
I'm installing the Penskes and the Nylon bushings and I noticed that BWR also sent me this:

What are these parts?


What front suspension looks like disconnected. It seems like the new nylon bushings will fit nice and snug but it says something in the directions about sanding them to fit, don't think I need to do this. If the control arm is out of round it doesn't seem to be. I could very lightly tap them into place and knock them out again without any grease.
Just need to put the new bushings in and bolt in the Penskes, do I need to grease the bushings and the sleeves?



In comparison to removing the clam pulling the bushings and shocks has been about 2 hours. This so far has been the easiest bushing job I've ever done.

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post #73 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 07:16 PM
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Those pieces are the front upper shock mounts, you need them because the springs will hit the frame I think otherwise. You remove the two bolts that have nuts behind the mount and swap them out. You will need a short wrench, and I always have a rock stuck up in there that I need to get out first.

The 3rd extra piece is the ABS mount, you can see how the existing one mounts, this just takes its place with the slightly different shock mount.

Why didn't you get monoballs? And why aren't you changing out all the hardware while you have it apart?

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post #74 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Those pieces are the front upper shock mounts, you need them because the springs will hit the frame I think otherwise. You remove the two bolts that have nuts behind the mount and swap them out. You will need a short wrench, and I always have a rock stuck up in there that I need to get out first.

The 3rd extra piece is the ABS mount, you can see how the existing one mounts, this just takes its place with the slightly different shock mount.

Why didn't you get monoballs? And why aren't you changing out all the hardware while you have it apart?
I went with these at the recommendation of BWR. I called up looking for monoballs and other suggestions and they guided me towards these. The story being that there's zero appreciable difference in terms of feel, and they're a lower maintenance item vs monoballs.
Plus they were cheaper, so I didn't see a reason to doubt the advice.

I'll call BWR in the morning because I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're talking about. As for hardware change, I hadn't thought of it... nothing's torque to yield so why mess with it. The bolt going through the passenger footwell is rusty though and the local hardware store has an amazing selection of grade 8 10.9 and 12.9 metric bolts/fasteners
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post #75 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Another update on the color. We're working at re-creating Volcano Orange, in AutoFlex, which is the professional version of plasti dip.
From all of the local hype the process has been creating a mutual friend had connections at the only local certified McLaren service center. So we got the full process involved in spraying Volcano Orange, and it's pretty complex, plus all pints sold of the paint are matched to a VIN, to be accounted for, so getting the paint still seems very difficult if I actually wanted to paint the car down the road.

But from the process we learned that they use a silver and layer candy and tinted oranges over the silver. So we took the same concept and sprayed a silver base with 3 layers of HOK tangerine candy over it in AutoFlex and here's where we're at so far.

Silver base on the left and after 3 coats of candy on the right.
I think we need another coat of candy to darken it a bit further, and add the gold interference pearl to it

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post #76 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 09:32 PM
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This car has an interesting interior. Looks like almost every piece was wrapped in either leather or that sueded diamond-stitch?
I've thought wrapping my dash and side sills in leather with a nice contrast stitching. Makes the car feel more luxurious and complete. I like how almost every surface in a Ferrari interior is finished in high-grade leather.
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post #77 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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This car has an interesting interior. Looks like almost every piece was wrapped in either leather or that sueded diamond-stitch?
I've thought wrapping my dash and side sills in leather with a nice contrast stitching. Makes the car feel more luxurious and complete. I like how almost every surface in a Ferrari interior is finished in high-grade leather.
Yeah this thing is probably one of the heavier cars on the forum, with the interior and sound system, but it definitely feels more like a Porsche GT3 or Ferrari than a lotus.
Which is why I couldn't understand why the guy went with such hard motor mounts which make everything rattle and feel cheap, so I'll be going back to stock and the car should feel like a lotus still but a bit more luxurious.
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post #78 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Waiting on the rear clam still so I figured I'd start in on the bodywork on the front clam. Learning bodywork on a Lotus seems risky, but I've probably watched more videos on sanding/prep than is really necessary.
400 grit, you can see the edge of the guide coat, where I've sanded and where I still have left. Half the clam took a good 2 hours.
I actually found it quite zen work. I typically wont touch body work, and prefer mechanical, but this has been relaxing in comparison to removing the clam.





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post #79 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 10:08 AM
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You might want to eliminate that seam.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

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post #80 of 210 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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You might want to eliminate that seam.
It is actually harder to do right than most people think. Fillers shrink over time which leaves a ghost outline. I'm hoping to have the autoflex on the car in a month or two so it won't have the appropriate time to shrink enough to do the correct layers.
If I have 6 months though of down time when the car doesn't have autoflex or paint on it, I'd consider it.

I would like to get rid of the seam though. If you know of a filler that's less likely to shrink I'm open to hearing more about it.
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