Starting the Rebuild Process - 06 Elise - Page 9 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #161 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 05:51 PM
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Wow good luck!! What a saga.

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post #162 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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I should start a youtube channel.
I could give Tavarish a run for his money with his burnt lambo rebuild.

So I'm bringing the car to the dealership after christmas to get the windshield replaced before I bring it to the body shop.
Family is over for the holidays and my sister hasn't seen the car yet so I decided to take her for a quick ride around the area.

Figured I'd charge the battery fully make sure all the systems are ready to go as the car's been sitting for 2 or 3 months and I was planning on making an hour plus trip the next day.
Well sometimes when you become intimately familiar with vehicles you get the ability to see into the future. Car was running perfectly well, even all of it's minor quibbles were not acting up and we came to a light, it was the first time I accelerated with more than 20-30% throttle and well here's the video:

Thought it had popped out of gear but none of the gears were giving me any forwar motion. Limped it to the side of the road and called AAA.




Gates in the transmission feel good clutch feels good, and it made no noise when it let go, and still doesn't make any noise have any wierd feelings or vibrations just no forward motion at all in any gear.
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post #163 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 09:08 AM
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Did you check by moving the transmission counterweight by hand into gear?

I've had many clutch failures but never had it just slip like that. Not saying it wont. Maybe its a Competition clutch and its wallowed out on the shaft and stuck open.

Is there any noise in the clutch area?

I guess if you've been launching much at that power level you could have stripped the output shaft against the differential I think.

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
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post #164 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Did you check by moving the transmission counterweight by hand into gear?

I've had many clutch failures but never had it just slip like that. Not saying it wont. Maybe its a Competition clutch and its wallowed out on the shaft and stuck open.

Is there any noise in the clutch area?

I guess if you've been launching much at that power level you could have stripped the output shaft against the differential I think.

So far I've loaded it onto the trailer and sent it to the dealer, got an email today that said the following:

"We looked at the Elise today and it appears that the clutch has failed… With the car in gear I can push it so the clutch is not grabbing at all to connect the engine and gearbox.
Also, that axle leak I showed you last time is much worse now and it looks like the axle is coming out of the LH side of the diff. There is excessive play and gear oil everywhere!
Would you like an estimate for us to repair?"


I'm not familiar with the transmission counterweight. Is that where the cable grabs the arm on the transmission to shift gears?
If so, the linkage feels fine from the driver seat, but it's interesting you bring it up because you did mention adjusting the linkage when the car popped out of 4th a couple months ago.


In terms of launches, the car's never been launched since I've owned it. Never beat on or anything remotely close to that. I don't even need to shift gears at the local track as it's easier to do the whole track in 3rd.
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post #165 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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BTW anyone notice my wideband reading and staying pegged at 16:1 AFR.
Can't explain that one either, but it just stayed 16:1. Car ran fine though. I think it's an issue with the wideband
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post #166 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 10:53 AM
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Before they do the clutch I would investigate that output shaft play and leak


could be a failure there, with one axle disconnected it will freewheel like a failed clutch
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post #167 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 12:44 PM
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Wow what a great thread. Lot of great progress!
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post #168 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Before they do the clutch I would investigate that output shaft play and leak


could be a failure there, with one axle disconnected it will freewheel like a failed clutch
Yep, I thought one of the axles had let go, thats how it felt. I'll dig in a bit further with them over the phone on monday, make sure they crossed their Ts and dotted their Is with that clutch diagnosis.

Its hard for me to imagine a clutch just completely letting go without some major peices breaking in there which would create "SOME" noise. This is totally silent.
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post #169 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 01:40 PM
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Axle coming partially out of the LH diff is pretty standard if it wasnt installed really well. I don't think it is possible that it would come out far enough to not engage at all but I could be wrong.

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
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post #170 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Axle coming partially out of the LH diff is pretty standard if it wasnt installed really well. I don't think it is possible that it would come out far enough to not engage at all but I could be wrong.
The cir-clip did feel looser going back in a second time than the first time I pulled them. I'll challenge them on that, because it would explain both the leak and the sudden loss of forward motion without any sound.
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post #171 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 06:13 AM
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I am thinking about the event with the ball joint coming loose, and possible delayed effects etc
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post #172 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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I am thinking about the event with the ball joint coming loose, and possible delayed effects etc
I had the same thought, but I also drove it 1000 miles and set a new personal best lap time at the track since then.
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post #173 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 07:17 PM
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Wow!, I've now been sitting in my easy chair reading the entire thread. 1) Glad you and your wife are safe. 2) I totally admire your learning curve and your ability to dive right in. 3) The latest issue I would guess is a driveshaft / axle issue. I'm with you regarding no noise, etc. I not only have an Elise but I've owned a Lotus since 1972. I have broken more than my fair share of stub axles in Lotus Elans and Europas. Sounds and acts exactly the same way. Forged stub axles have stopped it.

Paint, ahhhh, paint. My Elise was also repaired in its past before my ownership. When I purchased it, it had some micro blisters in the front clam but most people couldn't see them. Then I backed into the front clam with the hitch on the back of my truck. That made a nice hole!!!
And when the HVAC Resister Pack burned up I was forced to remove the clam. I did, and while I was replacing the radiator, the Resistor Pack and numerous other items I brought the clam to my neighborhood Toyota dealer's body shop. They didn't want to touch it but I talked them into. I then made the mistake of saying "no hurry"! "Can you work on it between jobs"! A few months went by before I got it back. A week later there was a qtr size bubble in the paint. Brought it back. They have bent over backwards to keep me happy. Two month went by, I picked it up again, set it in the back yard and three weeks later another bubble appeared. Returned it. They contacted 3M for material recommendations. Six weeks later it was ready again. I went to pick it up. One of the body men was walking backward to look down the side of another car, hit the clam where it fell off the stand and chipped the paint off the corner. A month later I can=me to pick it up again, when the paint bubbled again. And also at this time the EPA was forcing them to move to water based paint. They then demanded the 3M rep come out. It turned out the 3M rep was mistaken and had them using the wrong materials. They stripped it to the base and repainted it again. Took 11 months but it's back, looks great, and has no issues. I wish you much paint happiness!!!

Instead of the Honda or turbo changes, how about installing the Toyota V6? I love the way they sound!!!

Thank you for a great write up and sharing!
All the Best,
Frank

BTW - Mine is Graphite Grey with Red Leather and I love it!
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post #174 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 05:46 AM
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I had the same thought, but I also drove it 1000 miles and set a new personal best lap time at the track since then.
certainly, but sometimes damage takes time to fully become obvious.
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post #175 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 09:46 AM
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Wow...

I was reading through your thread, and once it got to the catastrophic paint posts, I feel for you man. The Lotus Gods have certainly tested you, and you keep rising back to your feet. I have had a few of these moments myself... My car in exploded view, dreaming of that far away distant shore where it's all behind you as you slice through a curve some summer day.

You deserve that slick sewing machine car man! That Volcano Orange is going to be WOKE man!

But other than just saying that, I have had a failure mode with a cv joint that had me chasing my Transmission and clutch, It will indeed act like you busted the LSD or clutch when one driveshaft gives. Just the same it looks like your going to have tear down to the clutch and re install everything again anyway... Check those hubs, find the play everywhere when your buttoning it up. I learned a lot working on my machine. Your symptoms of gears going in place normally in gates, but zero motion or noise. Exactly what happened to me. I tore everything apart, before i saw just thin line of grease on my cv joint. Transmission and clutch were fine. (clutch prob needed replacement anyway)

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/...aid-no-270666/

I am definitely following your thread now man, can't wait to read that post from that sunny day in this Happy New Year! Peacb

Wish I was in your neck of the woods so I could help man. Oh and Thank the Lotus God's for you and your wife's lives... That failure mode happened at the best of all possible times!

L O T U S

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post #176 of 220 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Famous Frank View Post
Wow!, I've now been sitting in my easy chair reading the entire thread. 1) Glad you and your wife are safe. 2) I totally admire your learning curve and your ability to dive right in. 3) The latest issue I would guess is a driveshaft / axle issue. I'm with you regarding no noise, etc. I not only have an Elise but I've owned a Lotus since 1972. I have broken more than my fair share of stub axles in Lotus Elans and Europas. Sounds and acts exactly the same way. Forged stub axles have stopped it.

Paint, ahhhh, paint. My Elise was also repaired in its past before my ownership. When I purchased it, it had some micro blisters in the front clam but most people couldn't see them. Then I backed into the front clam with the hitch on the back of my truck. That made a nice hole!!!
And when the HVAC Resister Pack burned up I was forced to remove the clam. I did, and while I was replacing the radiator, the Resistor Pack and numerous other items I brought the clam to my neighborhood Toyota dealer's body shop. They didn't want to touch it but I talked them into. I then made the mistake of saying "no hurry"! "Can you work on it between jobs"! A few months went by before I got it back. A week later there was a qtr size bubble in the paint. Brought it back. They have bent over backwards to keep me happy. Two month went by, I picked it up again, set it in the back yard and three weeks later another bubble appeared. Returned it. They contacted 3M for material recommendations. Six weeks later it was ready again. I went to pick it up. One of the body men was walking backward to look down the side of another car, hit the clam where it fell off the stand and chipped the paint off the corner. A month later I can=me to pick it up again, when the paint bubbled again. And also at this time the EPA was forcing them to move to water based paint. They then demanded the 3M rep come out. It turned out the 3M rep was mistaken and had them using the wrong materials. They stripped it to the base and repainted it again. Took 11 months but it's back, looks great, and has no issues. I wish you much paint happiness!!!

Instead of the Honda or turbo changes, how about installing the Toyota V6? I love the way they sound!!!

Thank you for a great write up and sharing!
All the Best,
Frank

BTW - Mine is Graphite Grey with Red Leather and I love it!

Looks Great and thank you for sharing your story. I think anyone who's been through this sort of fiasco can relate a bit. Luckily I'm pretty resourceful and I have no great pride that keeps me fromt driving this car in it's current ugly state, so I've already worn through my first set of R888Rs. So I've been using it, and not having it for the better part of a year would be more painful in some ways.
Feel like I'm a bit too young to be sitting back on my rocking chair exchanging war stories, but this isn't my first rodeo.
If it makes you feel better, my father in law just got his Corvette back after sitting at a shop for nearly 3 years . Mechanic broke his femur halfway through the project.


Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
certainly, but sometimes damage takes time to fully become obvious.

I agree, I pushed back on the dealership to see how much thought they put into the hour of diagnosis they charged me. Pushed back on the clutch letting go, told them I had changed it beginning of the summer. And he took a step back on his assertion that it was a clutch problem, and then kept saying well one wheel will turn on the lift (passengers side) but if he hold it the car's not spinning the other wheel. I said I have a Quaife and it is an LSD, but I believe those are Torsen diffs... and I had to say this at least 3 times to him nicely, and torsens don't lock when they're not under load, they act like open diffs.
So I pushed back on him kinda hard on if he was really making sure the splines on the drivers side axle were really engaged as he himself in the report mentioned that it seemed to be loose, and leaking fluid badly. Would make sense if it popped out, as that's the side that had the ball jont failure. And when I popped the acle back in, I didn't think anything of it at the time but the tension on the circlip to get it back in wasn't as significant as original, so maybe I just need to get a new circlip. and the axle disengaged.

So they're replacing the windsheild and they're goign to take another look for me. Keep your fingers crossed for something simple.
But I keep running into dealership experiences that are less than stellar. Just poor general mechanic diagnosis work, and it might apply here too. Esepcially given that from that quick diagnosis they were ready to rip the transmission out and start racking up the bills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motard View Post
Wow...

I was reading through your thread, and once it got to the catastrophic paint posts, I feel for you man. The Lotus Gods have certainly tested you, and you keep rising back to your feet. I have had a few of these moments myself... My car in exploded view, dreaming of that far away distant shore where it's all behind you as you slice through a curve some summer day.

You deserve that slick sewing machine car man! That Volcano Orange is going to be WOKE man!

But other than just saying that, I have had a failure mode with a cv joint that had me chasing my Transmission and clutch, It will indeed act like you busted the LSD or clutch when one driveshaft gives. Just the same it looks like your going to have tear down to the clutch and re install everything again anyway... Check those hubs, find the play everywhere when your buttoning it up. I learned a lot working on my machine. Your symptoms of gears going in place normally in gates, but zero motion or noise. Exactly what happened to me. I tore everything apart, before i saw just thin line of grease on my cv joint. Transmission and clutch were fine. (clutch prob needed replacement anyway)

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/...aid-no-270666/

I am definitely following your thread now man, can't wait to read that post from that sunny day in this Happy New Year! Peacb

Wish I was in your neck of the woods so I could help man. Oh and Thank the Lotus God's for you and your wife's lives... That failure mode happened at the best of all possible times!
Appreciate the offer, but this car would keep us both too busy.
See above the update from the dealer, they might not have done the best diagnostic work for the $155/hr they charged. They'll have more info for me later in the week, so hopefully it's good news and maybe they just made a mistake.

If that's the case then all major disasters should be averted.

There was so much interest in the thread about the Evora painted Volcano Orange that my hope is to figure out the process so others have access to it to. The volcano orange with lots of carbon fiber is the goal and I think the car will look very nice.

I mean here's the car on track with that terrible autoflex on it, without the hardtop, without the wing, without the carbon fiber and me test peeling a section, and all of the atttention to detail in the bodywork still makes it look pretty darn good.



It's easier to imagine the final look of the car in Volcano orange using this photo as an analog. Even though with the hard top this car would look even better:




Can anyone turn this red into volcano orange using photoshop?
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post #177 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Well found my problem:






Looks like the circlip didn't hold the axle in place strongly enough, maybe got dinged up a little bit on the ball joint failure, the axle started coming out of the transmission and then when I used a bit too much gas from the stop light it broke off right where you would expect it to break.
Certainly cheaper than pulling the trans, but at 4 hours to diagnose and replace and 1K for a new axle, still not cheap.

Hopefully will be driving to the body shop next week


Found out that this cobra used the PPG Volcano Orange formula I found, so I am encouraged about the possibility still of making this happen:
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post #178 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 09:00 AM
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I think you are lucky the outer portion of spline broke off. The other failure mode is stripping of the splines, which could also do damage to the splines in the differential.

I don't know if I have seen a cross reference to the inner and outer CV joints. Speculation tells me the inners are Toyota, but I don't know if anyone has confirmed if the axle spline is the same.
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post #179 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 08:44 PM
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That Cobra used to belong to my friend, let me know if you want any details on the paint codes stuff. I'm sure I can also get many photos of it. Here are a few:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/itzkir...3349102/page15

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post #180 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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That Cobra used to belong to my friend, let me know if you want any details on the paint codes stuff. I'm sure I can also get many photos of it. Here are a few:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/itzkir...3349102/page15
If you know him well, it would be great to talk to the guy or at least confirm this is the same PPG code he used. Also how many coats of pearl/candy etc. Because in a tri coat paint you can change the number of layers of mid coat and clear and get a very different looking effect with the exact same paint code.
Theres an Evora on here that was also volcano orange but it looks much paler in comparison to this Cobra for instance, which would probably be because of fewer coats of candy.
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