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Superchargers

7K views 45 replies 22 participants last post by  Jamari 
#1 ·
Hello!

I'm sure this question has been asked a few times, but here it goes:

I'm a new owner of a 2009 Lotus Elise. I was looking at SC kits, but there's a bit of confusion as to who is legal where, and I can't find good data on whether a kit is legal in my state (NV) or not. I'm not interested in bringing up the car to ridiculous HP, I think the ~220 from the OEM kit is more than enough. I think the Katana produces somewhere around this? Is the OEM kit worth it just to be CARB approved? Any others I should be looking at?

Thank you for your time.
 
#2 ·
If you get the OEM kit it will still pass CARB - as far as I know it's the only one that will - and with a factory tune you will be at 217hp. The Katana and BOE kits will produce more HP -- but frankly if you're good with 217hp I would just go the OEM route - for one thing it will be quite a bit cheaper, and of course CARB approved. Plus when it comes time to sell the car to the next owner it can make it easier to sell.
 
#4 ·
The OEM kit.....don't bother unless you absolutely need CARB approval. Ditto to what Turbophun stated on the MP45 SC. The OEM kit, when I inquired from my local Lotus dealership was around $6-7k and didn't factor in the installation costs. Keep in mind my prices are dated as I checked into this back when the Elise SC was first released and they were offering it as a factory upgrade to the non-SC'ed cars. Wasted money in my opinion when their are WAY better options out there.

I run a Katana 2 (MP62@ est. 245bhp), even tho it is a great reliable kit and provides lots of fun....these days I would go with BOE. When I snagged mine from the now defunct Sector 111 (Shinoo's new company sales it https://www.inokinetic.com/lotus/katana-2-supercharger?category=Engine ), it was only $4500 back in the day. It is now $6k for the same kit. I would go with the newer TVS SC's that BOE provides. They make more power and is upgradable for the same price as the Katana.
 
#5 ·
I contacted the Katana manufacturers. It's only compatible with 2008 and earlier cars (mine is 2009).

I also e-mailed BOE but I don't know exactly how to determine if it will meet emissions where I live.

The OEM SC actually would run close to 10k when it's all said and done nowadays.

Like I said, I'm not looking for crazy power, just a bit more pep. =)
 
#6 ·
I also e-mailed BOE but I don't know exactly how to determine if it will meet emissions where I live.
I would be very surprised if they couldn't make it meet requirements. And it does not look like Nevada requires anything remotely like what California does. The emissions test appears to be a sniffer, plus OBD2 check, and that's it. Mind you, I only spent 5 minutes googling this, so YMMV, IANAL, etc, etc.

CARB requirements are one of the things that cost the state of California a lot money to manage (and is slowly costing them business). I don't see any other states in a hurry to copy that effort. Can you imagine? What would all the strippers drive if they couldn't drive their old polluting junkers? :cool:
 
#9 ·
As someone that owns an Elise with a stock supercharger, I have to say it's not worth the effort. I'd just get a BOE Torque 200 tune and call it a day. I was at Streets of Willow with another owner with a NA 200 tune over the weekend and our straight line speeds were pretty much identical and he doesn't have the issue with heat soak. Hell, I've actually considered taking off the stock SC and going NA.
 
#11 ·
The BOE kits should pass as long as you ask Phil to turn the emissions monitors on. I have the fastworks tune (same tune software that the BOE kits use) and pass OBD2 testing with no issues. As long as your state only requires OBD2 and/or visual check for a cat there shouldn't be an issue.
 
#20 ·
As a science experiment, I put my Elise SC on DRS' dyno to try to quantify the heat soak. My car has an exhaust and a DMC header that BOE shows to be worth a decent amount of power. How much? I have no real idea. My WAG is 10 hp on my car, but I have no dyno plots to prove it.

Anyway, with engine oil up to temperature, but a cold SC, the car pulled about 185 whp on his dyno on a very cool California day. We then ran the car for two minutes at which time my oil temperature was at 220 degrees. The car then did two pulls which returned around 175 whp, with the second pull about 2 whp lower (noise?). So approximately 10 hp drop from simulating about one lap's worth of heat build up. Typically, my oil temperatures are in the 240-250 degree range on track so I'm sure my car probably makes less than 170 whp after it's been on track for awhile.
 
#22 ·
The problem with the MP45 in this application, is that you're close to the point of diminishing returns. Yes, you make more HP/TQ, but you also generate a lot more waste heat, hence the heat soaking issues. I think the analogy Phil used, was like putting a bunch of egg beaters in the middle of the intake tract.

I used to want an SC for my '05, because of the factory support and tidy packaging (no IC). But that was only until I got a torque 200 tune. Seriously drive one if you can, it may change your mind as well. I get a lot of the pin-you-in-the-back-of-the-seat fun, without any of the SC downsides.
 
#25 ·
A good supercharger kit will transform your Elise and make it much more fun to drive. I've done the Katana (without intercooler) and the Vision Function Stage 2 (with intercooler). Both were fun, but the intercooled version is much better. I am firmly in the BOE camp now. They have developed a kit that is well thought out, well designed, and provides performance with reliability that was not always there with some other kits. If you are not in California I think for you the base BOE with the TVS charger is the way to go. The Lotus OEM kit is probably not worth the effort and certainly not worth the cost.
 
#30 ·
The only current "kit" that has an intercooler is the BOE Rev400. That one has an air to water intercooler that is integrated into the intake manifold with a side mount radiator.
The only other one with an intercooler was the VF2 kit but that one is no longer made. The rest are non-intercooled.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
If one worries about resale, the factory s/u is usable in all US states; others are not, esp in CA.

Chips such as Torque 200:

In 2006, I got a (non-BOE) chip for Elise. PES not in that business now.

The most salient benefit was the elimination of the large valley before cam changeover. (IIRC, a ~20 hp gain at that point, but not at other rpms.)

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/pes-chip-experience-37912/

It was quicker in my testing: 3500 rpm to redline, same road and gas level; 1 second quicker. Pretty good.

2 yrs ago, got the BOE 300. No other changes, e.g. stock exhaust, but BOE uses their foam air cleaner.

---
The thing to remember about superchargers is the instant torque they deliver, down low.

This, a pleasure and easier to drive.

BOE shows the TQ200 @180 hp/136 tq (which may mean the hp at crank is ~212)

That is better than my old chip, but that tq is still pretty anemic and, worse, peaks at 6900 rpm.

Even the Exige S managed 159 tq (@ crank, ~187?) at a reasonably low 5500 rpm.

I cannot accept that 2 equal cars will perform the same using TQ200 vs factory supercharger.

----

I've said before that butt dynos are of no use to us. Try clocking your car before/after mods. I chose 3rd gear because it was long enough to minimize tiny timing errors and didn't want to introduce errors by incorporating any shifts.

I will post my new time (same road) soon.
 
#33 ·
I have an 05 with a factory supercharger. Picked it up used on this board for 1500 bucks. Installed by the local dealer for 1500 so all in 3K with new factory ECU flash, installation warranty and dealer paperwork. I love it, if only for the whine. Actually gives quite a useful down low torque boost. Different strikes for different folks I guess.

My motivating factor was long term support. So many aftermarket kits have come and gone in the last 10 years and parts support can get dicey.

I am not tracking this particular car, so for my purposes, it works out great. Plus as mentioned above, you can't go wrong with factory parts at resale time.
 
#34 ·
As you guys know, We've had about everything on the car over the years: Turbo(hated it), BWR Non-IC SC kit, Custom Whipple setup, and now the TVS400. TVS400 is night and day difference. Just feels like a big motor. 11 sec 1/4 mile car out of the box.

On the emissions front, we've passed in AZ multiple times, which at one point was HARDER than Cali. Now they are the same, plug in the OBDII, do a visual, check gas cap, done. To the OP, check your local laws. CARB is by its very nature, california specific. NV has their own stuff, but if I was guessing, same as AZ. People that say just chip the NA car, just haven't driven a TVS400.

Full disclosure, we sell the TVS400. We have 3 Eliges all have blowers.

FWIW
 
#38 ·
SC vs. NA

I own two 2011 Elise SCs. Both have Cup airboxes and Lotus Stage 3 exhaust systems. Otherwise they are stock.

The 2011 Lotus brochure states a 0-60 m.p.h. time of 4.3 seconds and 0-100 in 10.8 seconds for the Elise SC (145 m.p.h. top speed with the hardtop on). My cars might be slightly quicker, as the Stage 3 also saves 12.3 lbs. over the stock exhaust system.

I don't race my Elises, so I don't care about heat soak or what the ultimate supercharger setup is for track Elises.

I agree with Robocop310. My SCs are fast enough for me.

In fact, they are the most fun cars I have ever owned (which is why I recently bought a second one).

The factory supercharger spools up incredibly fast and it doesn't care what gear you are in - just mash the pedal and it goes. What's wrong with that?
 
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#39 ·
I own two 2011 Elise SCs. Both have Cup airboxes and Lotus Stage 3 exhaust systems. Otherwise they are stock.

The 2011 Lotus brochure states a 0-60 m.p.h. time of 4.3 seconds and 0-100 in 10.8 seconds for the Elise SC (145 m.p.h. top speed with the hardtop on). My cars might be slightly quicker, as the Stage 3 also saves 12.3 lbs. over the stock exhaust system.

I don't race my Elises, so I don't care about heat soak or what the ultimate supercharger setup is for track Elises.

I agree with Robocop310. My SCs are fast enough for me.

In fact, they are the most fun cars I have ever owned (which is why I recently bought a second one).

The factory supercharger spools up incredibly fast and it doesn't care what gear you are in - just mash the pedal and it goes. What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong if your cars came with it already. I think the point being made was why spend on something that is known to not perform optimally when there are other options in a similar price range or even less that are better. Passing smog seems to be the key factor but there are ways around it if the OP wants to go thru the trouble, if any, based on the tunes. In the end, it's the OP's decision. Awesome that you have 2 SC Elises btw. Trade me one ;)
 
#40 ·
You are correct, for a quick street car, supercharging is great! Especially if it came from the factory with a supercharger (yeah - all 238 U.S. Elise SCs).

If we are talking maximum performance, IMO, turbocharging is the only way to go.

A turbochargers thread would bring some opinions. LOL

Sorry, no trades. :)
 
#41 ·
Depends on what you mean by "maximum performance". When I had a turbo on our XP car, it was always a battle to get on the throttle early enough to build boost and out early enough to keep the torque rush from ripping the tires loose. For me, anyway, in AutoX the turbo was terrible. Alot of people make it work very well, I was not one of them. On the track this may be less of an issue since it is an autox on a 4X scale. More time take advantage of the slight advantage of power and efficiency and larger corner radii to minimize the boost onrush issues.
 
#42 ·
Since I live in the fascist state of CA, I added the factory supercharger many years ago. While people may pooh-pooh it, it changes the character of the car completely. All of a sudden, you have mid-range torque, even though the high end doesn't feel all that much more powerful. 2nd cam kicks in at 4400 RPM, and not 6200, and the transition is absolutely seamless, just the noise changes, which means the crossover point is tuned correctly.

Since I installed my factory SC about 8 years ago now, I've racked up ~13,000 miles on track with this thing, and it's been completely reliable the whole time. I've done two engine rebuilds since stuff wore out, but the S/C is still working great.

So, even if you get the factory SC, you will love the car, you will just spend the most money to get the least additional horsepower :)
 
#45 ·
It has been reliable :) It never broke down on me. I have about 15,000 track miles on that car, that is a LOT. That's a couple of hundred hours near redline. When you do that, bearings wear out, cylinder tolerances get looser, but the car still runs, just down on power, so at some point, you decide to rebuild. The joys of tracking...

My point is that the engine never blew, never overheated, with a supercharger that was used quite heavily.
 
#46 ·
Thanks for all the replies!

I live at altitude (~4500ft) so I was considering the supercharger. After doing some more research it looks like the REV300 would be fine for me power wise. My only concern with it is how necessary is a different clutch? Could it be "downtuned" as it were to not produce a ton of power? I would like to avoid going down a rabbit hole of having to replace a ton of stuff, and I don't want a lot more power in the car since it's not tracked or autocrossed just driven for pleasure. Also it's low mileage (just under 9k)

Regarding the Torque 200 tune I've seen mentioned: Unfortunately I can't drive a car with it but I do like the concept of the tune giving it a bit more torque. I just don't know enough about it unfortunately. =/

Incidentally I took the hardtop off this week and it's SUCH a blast.

Thanks to everyone who replied, you've been super helpful.
 
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