Superchargers - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 07:50 AM
Registered User
 
kfennell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoHippie View Post
How much hp do you think a reworked head and intake creates with bigger injectors?
less then 10?

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
kfennell is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:02 AM
not your dad's puns
 
Turbopun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Big D
Posts: 1,751
The problem with the MP45 in this application, is that you're close to the point of diminishing returns. Yes, you make more HP/TQ, but you also generate a lot more waste heat, hence the heat soaking issues. I think the analogy Phil used, was like putting a bunch of egg beaters in the middle of the intake tract.

I used to want an SC for my '05, because of the factory support and tidy packaging (no IC). But that was only until I got a torque 200 tune. Seriously drive one if you can, it may change your mind as well. I get a lot of the pin-you-in-the-back-of-the-seat fun, without any of the SC downsides.

because racecar
Turbopun is offline  
post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:05 AM
Registered User
 
LionZoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brea, CA
Posts: 920
I've ridden in a couple Torque 200 cars. They honestly feel just as fast as the stock Elise SC and maybe even slightly faster.

2011 Lotus Elise SC Final Edition 15 of 15 - Ardent Red
LionZoo is offline  
 
post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:09 AM
Registered User
 
Butters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
As someone that owns an Elise with a stock supercharger, I have to say it's not worth the effort. I'd just get a BOE Torque 200 tune and call it a day. I was at Streets of Willow with another owner with a NA 200 tune over the weekend and our straight line speeds were pretty much identical and he doesn't have the issue with heat soak. Hell, I've actually considered taking off the stock SC and going NA.
As much discussion as this thread is serving up, I just wanted to point back to this quote from @LionZoo .

Let's just go ahead and grant that the MP45 will get you to just over 200hp (crank?). This would be at the expense of weight, complexity, and heat soak. Alternatively, if you go with the BOE Torque 200 tune and, for the hell of it, upsize your injectors (to within the performance envelope of the stock fuel pump), you'll be making similar if not the same power --- with no added weight or complexity and no worry of heat soak. NA, all-motor power, baby. Your pocket book and your future maintenance schedule will thank you.
Mobius97 likes this.

Thinking of K-swapping? Here's an idea of the cost involved.

2006 LOTUS EXIGE (ASPEN WHITE) Honda K24A2 + MPx90 supercharger. 322whp/271lb-ft @13psi. Build thread here.
1994 AUTOZAM AZ-1 MAZDASPEED Japanese Super Kei!
2014 FIAT 500e Hydroelectric powered EV daily driver.
2007 SUZUKI SV650 Track bike.
Butters is offline  
post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 08:28 AM
Registered User
 
LesAlbin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 206
A good supercharger kit will transform your Elise and make it much more fun to drive. I've done the Katana (without intercooler) and the Vision Function Stage 2 (with intercooler). Both were fun, but the intercooled version is much better. I am firmly in the BOE camp now. They have developed a kit that is well thought out, well designed, and provides performance with reliability that was not always there with some other kits. If you are not in California I think for you the base BOE with the TVS charger is the way to go. The Lotus OEM kit is probably not worth the effort and certainly not worth the cost.
Mobius97 likes this.

O6 Elise Full Lotus Sport Ohlins Suspension Upgrade, VF Stage 2
LesAlbin is offline  
post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 09:34 AM
Registered User
 
Mobius97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesAlbin View Post
A good supercharger kit will transform your Elise and make it much more fun to drive. I've done the Katana (without intercooler) and the Vision Function Stage 2 (with intercooler). Both were fun, but the intercooled version is much better. I am firmly in the BOE camp now. They have developed a kit that is well thought out, well designed, and provides performance with reliability that was not always there with some other kits. If you are not in California I think for you the base BOE with the TVS charger is the way to go. The Lotus OEM kit is probably not worth the effort and certainly not worth the cost.
100% this if you plan on going the S/C route.

2005 Elise- Katana II Supercharged and other fun bits
2011 Evora - Daily Driver
Mobius97 is offline  
post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:12 PM
Registered User
 
Robocop305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 531
I'm satisfied with my factory SC for now. I don't track or race my car. I may change my mind if I decide to track it.

Last edited by Robocop305; 05-15-2019 at 12:18 PM.
Robocop305 is offline  
post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:15 PM
Registered User
 
daz01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 126
The Katana is out of stock when I asked about buying one.. looks like they are re-designing it? Worth awaiting on that?
daz01 is offline  
post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:31 PM
Registered User
 
daz01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 126
Also... anyone tell me where the intercooler on the Elise go? The Exige back is bigger and blocks the rear window. How is it fitted in the Elise ?
daz01 is offline  
post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 01:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by daz01 View Post
Also... anyone tell me where the intercooler on the Elise go? The Exige back is bigger and blocks the rear window. How is it fitted in the Elise ?
The only current "kit" that has an intercooler is the BOE Rev400. That one has an air to water intercooler that is integrated into the intake manifold with a side mount radiator.
The only other one with an intercooler was the VF2 kit but that one is no longer made. The rest are non-intercooled.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
ScottH83 is offline  
post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 03:21 PM
The Enforcer
 
oldmansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 6,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottH83 View Post
The only current "kit" that has an intercooler is the BOE Rev400. That one has an air to water intercooler that is integrated into the intake manifold with a side mount radiator.
The only other one with an intercooler was the VF2 kit but that one is no longer made. The rest are non-intercooled.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
That's not quite right. If you're going to do the REV400 right, you'll use the front-mount HEX kit. BOE will credit you for the REV400 parts not needed when you purchase the HEX kit. https://www.boefab.com/collections/p...heat-exchanger

San

#8 Metric Allen Key, Plastic Carpet Buttons
oldmansan is offline  
post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 04:06 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,126
If one worries about resale, the factory s/u is usable in all US states; others are not, esp in CA.

Chips such as Torque 200:

In 2006, I got a (non-BOE) chip for Elise. PES not in that business now.

The most salient benefit was the elimination of the large valley before cam changeover. (IIRC, a ~20 hp gain at that point, but not at other rpms.)

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25...erience-37912/

It was quicker in my testing: 3500 rpm to redline, same road and gas level; 1 second quicker. Pretty good.

2 yrs ago, got the BOE 300. No other changes, e.g. stock exhaust, but BOE uses their foam air cleaner.

---
The thing to remember about superchargers is the instant torque they deliver, down low.

This, a pleasure and easier to drive.

BOE shows the TQ200 @180 hp/136 tq (which may mean the hp at crank is ~212)

That is better than my old chip, but that tq is still pretty anemic and, worse, peaks at 6900 rpm.

Even the Exige S managed 159 tq (@ crank, ~187?) at a reasonably low 5500 rpm.

I cannot accept that 2 equal cars will perform the same using TQ200 vs factory supercharger.

----

I've said before that butt dynos are of no use to us. Try clocking your car before/after mods. I chose 3rd gear because it was long enough to minimize tiny timing errors and didn't want to introduce errors by incorporating any shifts.

I will post my new time (same road) soon.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is offline  
post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 04:45 PM
Registered User
 
jasonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 143
I have an 05 with a factory supercharger. Picked it up used on this board for 1500 bucks. Installed by the local dealer for 1500 so all in 3K with new factory ECU flash, installation warranty and dealer paperwork. I love it, if only for the whine. Actually gives quite a useful down low torque boost. Different strikes for different folks I guess.

My motivating factor was long term support. So many aftermarket kits have come and gone in the last 10 years and parts support can get dicey.

I am not tracking this particular car, so for my purposes, it works out great. Plus as mentioned above, you can't go wrong with factory parts at resale time.
jasonious is offline  
post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 05:05 PM
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,042
As you guys know, We've had about everything on the car over the years: Turbo(hated it), BWR Non-IC SC kit, Custom Whipple setup, and now the TVS400. TVS400 is night and day difference. Just feels like a big motor. 11 sec 1/4 mile car out of the box.

On the emissions front, we've passed in AZ multiple times, which at one point was HARDER than Cali. Now they are the same, plug in the OBDII, do a visual, check gas cap, done. To the OP, check your local laws. CARB is by its very nature, california specific. NV has their own stuff, but if I was guessing, same as AZ. People that say just chip the NA car, just haven't driven a TVS400.

Full disclosure, we sell the TVS400. We have 3 Eliges all have blowers.

FWIW


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 06:28 PM
The Enforcer
 
oldmansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 6,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzust View Post
As you guys know, We've had about everything on the car over the years: Turbo(hated it), BWR Non-IC SC kit, Custom Whipple setup, and now the TVS400. TVS400 is night and day difference. Just feels like a big motor. 11 sec 1/4 mile car out of the box.

On the emissions front, we've passed in AZ multiple times, which at one point was HARDER than Cali. Now they are the same, plug in the OBDII, do a visual, check gas cap, done. To the OP, check your local laws. CARB is by its very nature, california specific. NV has their own stuff, but if I was guessing, same as AZ. People that say just chip the NA car, just haven't driven a TVS400.

Full disclosure, we sell the TVS400. We have 3 Eliges all have blowers.

FWIW
I don't think anyone is against a REV300/400. The vast majority feel the MP45 isn't worth paying for, and that anyone considering one is probably better off with a NA tune.

San

#8 Metric Allen Key, Plastic Carpet Buttons
oldmansan is offline  
post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 03:19 AM
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
I don't think anyone is against a REV300/400. The vast majority feel the MP45 isn't worth paying for, and that anyone considering one is probably better off with a NA tune.

San
Ahhh, I see. Very good point, San! I wasn't addressing the non-MP45 options out there as you guys are correct the MP45 isn't worth it....not at all.... On most OEM cars you can have a hot version of the car which is glorious high-revving NA, which is automotive purity and sublimity(is that a word? If not, it should be) i.e. GT3(9,000rpm), GT350(8,250), etc etc. When the OEMs do boost, they drop the RPMs and make HP with the boost. 911 Turbo S(6750rpm) or C7Z06/ZL1(6500rpm). Lot of OEM-ish reasons for that. So while my first and foremost favorite is that high revving NA, the blower Lotus cars, (MP45 not withstanding), don't sacrifice that high-revving nature. They just feel like bigger motor NA screamers.

For a while I toyed with building the Ultimate NA 2zz road-going Lotus, the math just wasn't there. The SC is easy and works so well. At a certain level, power is power. Ask a Tesla owner....

Again, truly not trying to push a particular point of view, rather trying to share as someone that has done all of these things and trying to explain the nuance of why I landed where I did. I do agree if funds are an issue AND someone is confident that MP45 power is all they would ever, ever, pinky-swear want. Then do the reflash with some headers and be done. Unfortunately, there is never enough power for me. RevX is the result of me badgering Phil for a couple of years....
darkSol likes this.


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 08:20 AM
Registered User
 
LionZoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brea, CA
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzust View Post
For a while I toyed with building the Ultimate NA 2zz road-going Lotus, the math just wasn't there.
I was tempted to do that as well. However, there wasn't a good option for engine management that kept the readiness codes (kind of needed to "pass" CA smog). What I wanted was a flash tune for a NA build, but nobody had that.

2011 Lotus Elise SC Final Edition 15 of 15 - Ardent Red
LionZoo is offline  
post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 09:45 AM
Registered User
 
Trick Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 49
SC vs. NA

I own two 2011 Elise SCs. Both have Cup airboxes and Lotus Stage 3 exhaust systems. Otherwise they are stock.

The 2011 Lotus brochure states a 0-60 m.p.h. time of 4.3 seconds and 0-100 in 10.8 seconds for the Elise SC (145 m.p.h. top speed with the hardtop on). My cars might be slightly quicker, as the Stage 3 also saves 12.3 lbs. over the stock exhaust system.

I don't race my Elises, so I don't care about heat soak or what the ultimate supercharger setup is for track Elises.

I agree with Robocop310. My SCs are fast enough for me.

In fact, they are the most fun cars I have ever owned (which is why I recently bought a second one).

The factory supercharger spools up incredibly fast and it doesn't care what gear you are in - just mash the pedal and it goes. What's wrong with that?
Chemgee likes this.

2011 Lotus Elise SC (Storm Titanium/Magnolia 1 of 1) 13k miles
2011 Lotus Elise SC (Ardent Red/Black 1 of 2 w/ Black Pack) 34k miles
1994 Buick Century Special Wagon (White/Tan) Daily Driver 70k miles
Trick Wheels is offline  
post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 10:42 AM
Registered User
 
NoRawkus305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick Wheels View Post
I own two 2011 Elise SCs. Both have Cup airboxes and Lotus Stage 3 exhaust systems. Otherwise they are stock.

The 2011 Lotus brochure states a 0-60 m.p.h. time of 4.3 seconds and 0-100 in 10.8 seconds for the Elise SC (145 m.p.h. top speed with the hardtop on). My cars might be slightly quicker, as the Stage 3 also saves 12.3 lbs. over the stock exhaust system.

I don't race my Elises, so I don't care about heat soak or what the ultimate supercharger setup is for track Elises.

I agree with Robocop310. My SCs are fast enough for me.

In fact, they are the most fun cars I have ever owned (which is why I recently bought a second one).

The factory supercharger spools up incredibly fast and it doesn't care what gear you are in - just mash the pedal and it goes. What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong if your cars came with it already. I think the point being made was why spend on something that is known to not perform optimally when there are other options in a similar price range or even less that are better. Passing smog seems to be the key factor but there are ways around it if the OP wants to go thru the trouble, if any, based on the tunes. In the end, it's the OP's decision. Awesome that you have 2 SC Elises btw. Trade me one

2002 Honda S2000 - RIP MAY 2012
2005 Lotus Elise Sport and Touring Package - Weekend Warrior
2015 NX200T F-Sport - DD and Winter Beater
2006 Hummer H3 - The wife's
NoRawkus305 is offline  
post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:04 AM
Registered User
 
Trick Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 49
You are correct, for a quick street car, supercharging is great! Especially if it came from the factory with a supercharger (yeah - all 238 U.S. Elise SCs).

If we are talking maximum performance, IMO, turbocharging is the only way to go.

A turbochargers thread would bring some opinions. LOL

Sorry, no trades.

2011 Lotus Elise SC (Storm Titanium/Magnolia 1 of 1) 13k miles
2011 Lotus Elise SC (Ardent Red/Black 1 of 2 w/ Black Pack) 34k miles
1994 Buick Century Special Wagon (White/Tan) Daily Driver 70k miles
Trick Wheels is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Elise

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Superchargers, Turbos, & Nitrous for the 2ZZ-GE aletes Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc) 20 08-21-2008 12:52 AM
Eaton TVS superchargers...any word? Westrock Forced Induction 2 08-31-2007 06:12 AM
Ronin Superchargers at Buttonwillow today... kaz General Discussion (Lotus related) 4 10-24-2006 05:03 AM
superchargers installed !!!!! swisstexelise Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc) 41 02-01-2006 08:26 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome