Why not get a 111R ? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Why not get a 111R ?

Since the Federal Elise seems to be a low priority for Lotus. By that I mean it's coming after the Toyota Elise in Europe (111R)and Australia, as well as behind the Toyota Exige. Whats wrong with this scenario....

The Rover Elise could not be imported due to smog regulations and safety equipment. The Seven somehow can be registered despite lacking safety gear. The 111R lacks some safety gear, but does conform to smog. Why not purchase a 111R and import ?


Steve

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 11:33 AM
 
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Why not wait grasshopper?
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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If someone can get Lotus to write up a letter that says that the 111R will be identical to the U.S. spec car in both crash tests and emissions, then it should be relatively easy to import. BTW, the Caterham's are legal in some states (like CA) because they are "kit" cars and therefore have very few regulations that they have to pass, just that they meet emissions for the year that the engine was built in, and that they have a couple of lights and mirrors, and thats it.

There's a whole section in the DOT vehicle code on importing cars with such an exemption letter. I can find the links later if people are interested.

Steve
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 12:58 PM
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Where oh where do you get this stuff!!

What indication do you have from ANYONE that the US market is a "low priority". The final waivers were not even approved from DOT until Feb., Lotus has spent millions to get the car importable to the US, they spent a few hundred thousand for the LA show etc., they had some of the major players at Lotus there with the cars. Two odd years ago they said the cars would be here in April, at a price of $38,500, now the cars will be here in May-June and priced @$40k.

The fact that the UK and Oz got the toyota powered car three four months early I see as a good thing, this might cut down on customer complaints here, by working the bugs out first.

Ridiculous!

The seven is in no way comparable in this instance, it's imported to the US as a component/kit car sans engine.

I'm sorry but statements like you made I find quite annoying in view of ALL the work the Lotus people have done to get the car here, go buy a Honda.
Chris

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derek
Why not wait grasshopper?
Because I'm getting tired of waiting for cars. I was on the MINI S
list for a 5 month wait that became 14 months. I moved straight to the Elise list. I've been on the Elise list since Oct 2003 for what was indicated to be a wait until August or September 2004. Now at the latest pace of delivery it will likely be June 2005.

Now for those who want to jump in and argue...

I know people have been waiting since 1953, but those of you who put deposits in before the official announcement weren't actually waiting for anything but a promise of maybe a chance.
It's not quite the same as putting a deposit on an annouced car
and being told a delivery date that is now completely out of the realm of reality.

We are all not fortunate enough to live new Lotus of Atlanta who it seems will get the lions share of the 350 cars by next August.


Steve

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 01:54 PM
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Well If I was a passenger in your imported car, I would hope you could get one earmarked for Europe with a left side drive. Btw, no airbags if that sorta thing bothers you. I would guess this misadventure would cost major $ and hassles with dubious residual values.

The Elise is IMHO a toy car, so I do not see its arrival as anything more than myself being 8 years old again on Christmas Eve. Sure I want it sooner, but now I will have the summer to ride my bicycle more with the hope to lighten its load when it does arrive

I agree with Chris, why not let others be the beta testers and work out any residual bugs that might be in the new engine transplant? Plus lots of cheaper alternatives, perhaps not quite as fun, but avail like S2000, Mazdaspeed turbo Miata, Boxster....
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 01:57 PM
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Well, to start the 111R doesn't have the air bags or required side markers. In other words doesn't meet safety standards. Doubt Lotus USA would cover it under warranty. If someone really wanted to take this path there's alot of unknows that will have to be figured out. IMHO not wroth the hassle, but if you don't want to wait you'd at least be spinning your wheels trying to figure out the pro & cons.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sownman
Because I'm getting tired of waiting for cars. I was on the MINI S
list for a 5 month wait that became 14 months. I moved straight to the Elise list. I've been on the Elise list since Oct 2003 for what was indicated to be a wait until August or September 2004. Now at the latest pace of delivery it will likely be June 2005.

Now for those who want to jump in and argue...

I know people have been waiting since 1953, but those of you who put deposits in before the official announcement weren't actually waiting for anything but a promise of maybe a chance.
It's not quite the same as putting a deposit on an annouced car
and being told a delivery date that is now completely out of the realm of reality.

We are all not fortunate enough to live new Lotus of Atlanta who it seems will get the lions share of the 350 cars by next August.


Steve
You know that you could have come to N.Y. and purchased a Mini right off the floor at their main dealership in Manhattan, then driven the car back. They were being sold for 'sticker' and still are as far as I know.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sownman

We are all not fortunate enough to live new Lotus of Atlanta who it seems will get the lions share of the 350 cars by next August.


Steve

Glad Im with LOA. Mwhahhahahahha.


Dont worry folks. Be happy. It will be here soon enough.




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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:44 PM
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I wouldn't want the outdated interior
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by zvezdah1
Where oh where do you get this stuff!!

What indication do you have from ANYONE that the US market is a "low priority". The final waivers were not even approved from DOT until Feb., Lotus has spent millions to get the car importable to the US, they spent a few hundred thousand for the LA show etc., they had some of the major players at Lotus there with the cars. Two odd years ago they said the cars would be here in April, at a price of $38,500, now the cars will be here in May-June and priced @$40k.

The fact that the UK and Oz got the toyota powered car three four months early I see as a good thing, this might cut down on customer complaints here, by working the bugs out first.

Ridiculous!

The seven is in no way comparable in this instance, it's imported to the US as a component/kit car sans engine.

I'm sorry but statements like you made I find quite annoying in view of ALL the work the Lotus people have done to get the car here, go buy a Honda.
Chris
Well sometimes Chris when you put up an public internet site you get opinins that differ from yours, and some may just annoy you.

As to where I get my "low priority" opinion I already stated it, but for your sake I'll repeat and try to expand a bit. The Elise has been kicking around Europe for several years, but bringing it here was not a priority. It's been kicking around Oz for several years but bringing it here was not a priority. Lotus found an engine that would allow them to bring it here, but has decided to introduce that product in Oz and UK first, once again sign we are not a priority. They have also decided it is more important to produce a S2 Exige with that powerplant before they build the Fed Elise'. I hate to repeat myself so much, but another indicator of our lower priority. Get it yet ?

Now I can be patient and wait for anything but air, food, and water. What I would like is the straight scoop on how long I'll be waiting. I would like the estimate to be at least accurate within a few months. I didn't get that from MINI and now I'm not getting that from Lotus. I don't see why a bit of dissent is so troubling to you, are you afraid Lotus will see an "ungrateful Yank" and pull the whole deal ? Heck yu're with LOA you'll probably have a car later today.

Regards

Steve

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 03:04 PM
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Outside of the first three months or so, as far as I know, NO dealers know the rest of year's allocation.

Lotus is still on for doing 2300 or so cars the first year, this number has been pretty stable and consistent for some months, you'll get your car, just hang in there.

Besides, even though the wait "before the official announcement" doesn't count, I'm told the deposit lists helped show that LCU could deliver buyers.

If you waited 14 months for a mini??? How long would you be willing to wait for an elise?

Chris
Who sure feels like the 26 months he's waited so far was a real wait even if not fully under the umbrella of the official announcement

Chris
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 04:19 PM
 
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The dealers should get detailed allocation numbers at the dealer meeting in two weeks. I would at least hold out for that much longer. According to the numbers my dealer gave me for the first batch of cars coming to the US, it looks like there will be a very large variation between different dealers. Fortunately the one I'm buying from has been selling a lot of Esprits.

I also got on the waiting list in October '03, and I'm expecting to get a car this summer (spot #17).
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 04:19 PM
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I'm with Chris on this one. It's a good thing Lotus isn't bringing the car here right away, because this gives them a chance to work out the bugs with manufacturing Toyota-powered Elises, before it makes its US debut. They have so much riding on the launch of this car! If it flops, or if there is ANY negative press, profits from US sales may plummet (I'm assuming the profit on an Elise is not high due to its relatively low price and dollar/pound ratio - they need to sell a LOT of them). if US sales plummet, it will be years before another new Lotus model is ready to sell here. Their already fading image will suffer even more in that time. They can't afford 2+ years of negative press over this car - it's gota succeed. This benefits us all.

As for committment, making the Elise US-legal takes more than desire!!! A business case needs to be made, financing secured, project teams built up, market studies performed. I can guarantee you it's a lot easier to drop a new engine into a car you're already selling in a given market, than to introduce a car into an entirely new market.

Last fall, in the September press released, they told us the car would be here in nine months. That means JUNE, which is exactly when my dealer tells me the first customer cars are getting here.

Of course, either of us could be wrong about Lotus' reasons and actions. It's just all speculation, which is pretty much pointless with this stuff anyway.

'05 Elise, Magnetic Blue / Biscuit / Hardtop
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 04:51 PM
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Steve,
Your logic about the wait time for those who put deposits down long ago, prior to the offical announcment, weren't waiting for anything defies logic. It just may be that Lotus decided to import the car because so many people "voted" with their checkbooks early on. In fact that is exactly how it was expressed to me. I put my deposit down in November of 2001 and I have been waiting every since. Each and every mention of the car in any magizine was of great interest to me. Speculate all you want, I have been waiting for over 2 1/2 years now, call it what you want to me it has been waiting!
I think Lotus has shown a lot of interest in the USA and is very focused on us as an important market.
Chris is right about the Caterham, a very different set of rules for kit built cars than finished cars.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 05:21 PM
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Got on the waiting list January 2002 for a September 2003 delivered, fully loaded $38,500 Elise.

#somethingwickedthiswaycomes... the new Origin Noble M and the Origin 7

Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Chase
Got on the waiting list January 2002 for a September 2003 delivered, fully loaded $38,500 Elise.
Yep, I was planning to buy a lot of stuff for my September '03 Elise off of the Lotuscars.com shop which is coming Fall '03.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 09:46 PM
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From a EU customer point of view, Sownman seems to have some right complaining about some sort of delay in the Lotus queue.

Still he has to admit the following:

1) Lotus' loyal customers live in Europe, and Oz.
2) Lotus made a huge investment to secure the Toyota engine and create a car having as primary target an entirely new market like the US.
3) US market have very aware and conscious customers. Having realised your purchasing power, US customers can sink such niche companies in no time, if they're given a faulty product . On the contrary, EU Lotus customers may excuse some birth problems, (and some may even be proud that the co-develop such gems you'll receive later on!!!..) and look after dealers' assistance in much closer distances!!!. I've the only 111R for the next 2-3 months, and I live just 15 mins from the dealer...It's a difference, isn't it?
I admit you'd feel crazy if I tell you that I basically had the chance to take the car the same day. I only had to wait for standard procedures to complete...But sometimes, patience rewards you multifolds. You'll feel that by the time you'll get this toy car. As GabbaGabbaHey said, that's the correct term for it.
Btw GabbaGabbaHey, bikes and 111R seem to behave the same in cornering. (look at my thread on 111R impressions). So the more you practice correct cornering on your bike, the more you'll enjoy your toy .
4) Having invested so much for the US market, your participation in the waiting list is our promise that this company will stand on it own feet and continue to have such kind of freedom to create this sort of dream cars, and have the neccessary funds to develop more like this in the future.

Stay where you are, don't be disappointed with waiting time, and you'll feel what I felt and wrote in another thread!


Have fun.

Theo
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www.lotusclub.gr
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 10:55 PM
 
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As to where I get my "low priority" opinion I already stated it, but for your sake I'll repeat and try to expand a bit. The Elise has been kicking around Europe for several years, but bringing it here was not a priority. It's been kicking around Oz for several years but bringing it here was not a priority. Lotus found an engine that would allow them to bring it here, but has decided to introduce that product in Oz and UK first, once again sign we are not a priority. They have also decided it is more important to produce a S2 Exige with that powerplant before they build the Fed Elise'. I hate to repeat myself so much, but another indicator of our lower priority. Get it yet ?
Hi Snowman

What do you mean with low priority?

The US production has it's own line in Hethel. Just this curious regulations and your 'normal' behavior to sue for damages has the development of the US version slowed down

And don't forget godd things take time

Piple
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 11:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by atyclb
I wouldn't want the outdated interior
I'd much rather have the 111R's interior, the Alcantera, the lighter weight, the gunmetal wheels and the lack of garish wheel arch lights. There's not a single thing I can think of that I prefer on the U.S Elise, though I'm open to suggestions.
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